Coronavirus outbreak

[Joey Shabadoo]

When news of the first lockdowns in China came out, I recall saying to a colleague that it wouldn't happen here because we have too many special flowers who think rules don't apply to them and they have human rights dontcha know so I'm kinda surprised it's taken so long for one of them to come squealing to the top of the pile.

We could have chosen the French route where you need a piece of paper to go outside, but we didn't. We imposed a consensual lockdown with the rules framed loosely to allow for individual circumstances. Regardless of the letter of the law, the spirit of the law is to keep everyone indoors as much as possible for the benefit of all.

I've seen the helmet debates on CC. I'm entirely unsurprised to see the nitpickers trying to interpret laws to suit themselves.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

Surely the spirit of the law is to vastly reduce the potential vectors for the virus to spread? The law has to be framed in such a way that it can be enforced. A law saying only once a day exercise would be unenforceable. Hence the recent changes to the law didn’t say that. We simply don’t have the numbers to police such a thing.

So it’s a mix of what is considered enforceable laws plus some overreaching guidelines which are far more reaching than the law. So one is law to be enforced and the other behavioural to hopefully deliver the desired outcome.

 

[DaveReading]

The latest guidance being given to officers by the College of Policing (the professional body for the police) makes no specific reference to cycling, but simply says:

"No person may leave the place where they are living without a reasonable excuse. Reasonable excuses include:

to take exercise either alone or with other members of their household"

(etc)

While those are guidelines, and subject to interpretation by individual forces, they are pretty unambiguous. Note the absence of any reference to time/distance/frequency.

https://www.college.police.uk/News/College-news/Pages/Health-Protection-Guidelines.aspx

 

[tom73]

This whole thing is new to not just to us but the police who have never really been asked to do this before.
On the whole most police look to be following the tried and tested educate , encourage , enforcement.
So it's not always going to go smoothly it's important that we are aware of any mass over use of the law. In the end it come's down to common sense and keeping within the spirt of the law. Which may not be spelt out in black and white but it's a quick way to work out if someone is clearly taking the pee.

 

[Pale Rider]

True can't see them just walking away with the normal slap.
Given the current situation it won't just be the "harry grout's" they need to worry about.

You - or Mrs 73 - may be aware 'assault of an emergency worker' is a new offence.

The penalties for it are more serious than for common assault which is what someone who thumped a nurse or doc would have been charged with.

I think I read somewhere the average sentence for cases dealt with under the new law is 12 weeks.

Previously it might not even have been custody, so it's a step in the right direction.

 

[Johnno260]

The prat lawyer who said it’s legal to go out as many times as they like is a total moron, who cares about the legality its the morality, staying at home potentially saves life’s its idiots like that who will give people the excuse they want to go out.

Maybe the same tool should go and look at today’s death toll and think about his words.

 

[mjr]

A law saying only once a day exercise would be unenforceable. Hence the recent changes to the law didn’t say that.

Except in Wales, bizarrely. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/wsi/2020/353/regulation/8/made

[...] Regardless of the letter of the law, the spirit of the law is [...]

If I was in charge, I'd lock down the internet of anyone posting any BS about "the spirit of the law" because they're clearly flaming drunk!

 

[tom73]

You - or Mrs 73 - may be aware 'assault of an emergency worker' is a new offence.

The penalties for it are more serious than for common assault which is what someone who thumped a nurse or doc would have been charged with.

I think I read somewhere the average sentence for cases dealt with under the new law is 12 weeks.

Previously it might not even have been custody, so it's a step in the right direction.

Indeed I am like you say it's new and and more serious. Sure was long over due if I remember the max sentence has been increased since it was 1st past. Mrs 73 lucky has not needed to have us of it though she knows a few who have.

 

[mjr]

The prat lawyer who said it’s legal to go out as many times as they like is a total moron, [...]

There's at least three so far: Adam Wagner, Matthew Scott and Lord Sumption.

Maybe, just maybe, the morons might be the politicians passing laws while giving speeches and publishing FAQs that disagree with their laws?

 

[mjr]

"Boris Johnson has presided over a public policy disaster. Now, he wants you to blame your neighbours. Don't." https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/op...rdinary-people-for-the-uks-pandemic-failures/

 

[Johnno260]

There's at least three so far: Adam Wagner, Matthew Scott and Lord Sumption.

Maybe, just maybe, the morons might be the politicians passing laws while giving speeches and publishing FAQs that disagree with their laws?

oh well, then make it across the board you can leave home for nothing but the essentials.
Obviously the general public can’t be asked to use common sense so treat them like kids.

 

[mjr]

oh well, then make it across the board you can leave home for nothing but the essentials.
Obviously the general public can’t be asked to use common sense so treat them like kids.

Why are you pushing so hard for that?

Asking the public to use common sense would be far better than codifying certain things in laws, but different things in the different nations, and then pretending in official documents and speeches that the law says something else.

 

[Racing roadkill]

It interesting that the ONS have decided to include the particular new numbers they have, to artificially bolster the rate figures. They’ve scored a spectacular own goal. The new figures include deaths outside of hospitals. Now let’s see. The ‘mantra’ for justifying the degree of controls / lockdown is “Stay at home” ( they’re dead, it’s irrelevant, as dead people can’t spread the virus ) “Protect the NHS” ( people who’ve died outside of hospital won’t require hospital beds / ventilators / ITU so aren’t going to be a drain on NHS resources are they?) “save lives” ( They’re already dead, they can’t help you with that Boris). If this attempted manipulation of the figures fares as well as the last tactic to artificially bolster the numbers, by changing the recording period from 8 hrs to 24 hrs did ( it only worked for about 2 or 3 days) then I think the next tactic will be to start counting any death, where the person had Corona virus in their system, regardless of whether that had much influence in why they died, or not ( for example they died because they got hit by a car, but they were found to have CV in their system, so they count in CV death stats ). That would be a truly desperate attempt, but going on evidence thus far, not beyond the realms of possibility.

 

[carlosfandangus]

Here's a different lawyer explaining how not even England and Wales have the same rules on exercise, as well as the usual differences with Scotland, NI, IoM and the Channel Islands: https://barristerblogger.com/2020/03/30/those-british-isles-lockdown-questions-answered/

We now have a blanket 40 MPH maximum on the island, it was unlimited over the mountain, I was once overtaken at 150 MPH

 

[Johnno260]

Why are you pushing so hard for that?

Asking the public to use common sense would be far better than codifying certain things in laws, but different things in the different nations, and then pretending in official documents and speeches that the law says something else.

Because put simply they can’t use common sense, they have been asked and they refuse to.

You get these dumbass lawyers saying it can’t be enforced so for the retard brigade it will green light them to do as they please.

My wife is frontline nurse putting her health at risk every shift so my tolerance for these imbeciles is at a fat zero.

A large section of the public are showing their true colours at the moment and to be blunt it’s f%*$ing disgusting.