Coronavirus outbreak

[Rusty Nails]

Of course it's too much - unfortunately the govt is going to have make some tough calls - it's not going to please everyone / anyone .....

There aren't many good options - govt is keen to quote its advisors - but then ignore the guidance from WHO ....

I understand the point, but are our advisors ignoring the guidance from the WHO, or listening to it but having a different professional and scientific opinion on the effectiveness of that approach? If you listen to advice but disagree you are not ignoring it.

Someone said earlier in the thread something along the lines that if you put seven scientists in a room you would get five different opinions. In this thread we seem to have way above seven expert scientists, none of whom give me any confidence that they know more than our government's advisers.

 

[kingrollo]

Do you have a link? I’d like to read it.

As I understand it, if the country doesn’t develop a herd immunity, when the virus evolves into something worse in the winter (as is predicted) then there’ll be real trouble.

Cant link on my phone. Think it's on the BBC - or Google will quickly throw it up

 

[RecordAceFromNew]

Although if you look at the list of people who have signed there’s a lot of mathematicians and PhD students (researchers in training). If I’d read a critique from a group of virologists or epidemiologists, I’d take more notice. So the CMO/CSA are probably not that worried.

Edit: it’s also worth knowing that Dr Hanage is not a full professor at Harvard. He’s the equivalent of a senior lecturer. So I suspect Professor Chris Whitty has a tad more experience in dealing with these things.

How about from a full UCL Prof representing the British Society of Immunology?

BSI open letter to Government on SARS-CoV-2 outbreak response

or from WHO's spokeperson?

UK's strategy for tackling coronavirus questioned by World Health Organisation

or from a group of 6 led by the editor of Lancet?

 

[kingrollo]

I understand the point, but are our advisors ignoring the guidance from the WHO, or listening to it but having a different professional and scientific opinion on the effectiveness of that approach? If you listen to advice but disagree you are not ignoring it.

Someone said earlier in the thread something along the lines that if you put seven scientists in a room you would get five different opinions. In this thread we seem to have way above seven expert scientists, none of whom give me any confidence that they know more than our government's advisers.

That's all true of course.
But we seem to have a different approach to most European countries - and WHO disagree with the UK approach.

W

 

[oldfatfool]

The Trumpster is making a statement at 5pm est, so pensions will either rise or sink beneath the waves

 

[Pale Rider]

I thought there is broad agreement over the concept of herd immunity.

Our experts and government are saying herd immunity is not policy, but it would be a benefit of lots of people catching the virus which is likely to happen whether we want it to or not.

 

[Joey Shabadoo]

Against Covid-19, the Minister of Health recommends not to take ibuprofen

Ibuprofen belongs to the family of nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs), drugs that can worsen existing infections.

From Le Monde - https://www.lemonde.fr/societe/arti...I36_dmzFIwx499iDLdrIkWngbo_Bsiqj5U8VLVUwgbEeM

Ibuprofen, sold under this name and various trade names (such as Advil and Nurofen), is part of the family of nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs), drugs that can worsen existing infections, with large possible complications. Several doctors have thus mentioned cases of young patients with Covid-19 and without comorbidities who find themselves in a serious state after taking ibuprofen for their fever.

For this reason, NSAIDs are no longer sold self-service in French pharmacies since January 15

Useful information I hope

 

[Rocky]

How about from a full UCL Prof representing the British Society of Immunology?

BSI open letter to Government on SARS-CoV-2 outbreak response

or from WHO's spokeperson?

UK's strategy for tackling coronavirus questioned by World Health Organisation

or from a group of 6 led by the editor of Lancet?

View attachment 508555

Interesting but they seem to be looking very short term. What happens when the virus returns in the winter?

What is also interesting is seeing the normal scientific process played out in public. This debate is what happens normally through the peer review process. As scientists they are used to asking questions and critiquing the science however they do not have the wider picture to consider (I) public morale (ii) damage to the economy (iii) law and order. Boris, Whitty and Vallance have to consider all of these.

 

[Milzy]

a general comment to all of this is why do we all need to know everything about the strategy? To an extent this is a PR exercise in that we need to keep people informed but this should be drip fed based on current assessments.
Too many people feel they need to know everything but to what aim?

Ref work, then until you are told differently then I would go in. I too work in the NHS and I am expecting that tomorrow my role may well be different in that I could be supporting the front line teams in their roles? Not sure what your job is in the hospital but it could be the same for you?

This is true, my wife will probably have no home visits or clinics to attend. This will mean nothing to type up in the office. Probably going to be on a phone giving out advice instead.

 

[BoldonLad]

That despite all the bluster - guidance from central government is very weak ?

An alternative view is that lots if people who have nothing of substance to say, are grabbing their 30 seconds in the limelight to spout nothing, dressed up as expertise.

 

[BoldonLad]

Now its really getting serious.
Just reading that Jehovahs Witnesses have cancelled all door to door witnessing, all public meetings and all those public literature carts you see.

Maybe they have all the seats “up there” filled now?

 

[kingrollo]

Interesting but they seem to be looking very short term. What happens when the virus returns in the winter?

What is also interesting is seeing the normal scientific process played out in public. This debate is what happens normally through the peer review process. As scientists they are used to asking questions and critiquing the science however they do not have the wider picture to consider (I) public morale (ii) damage to the economy (iii) law and order. Boris, Whitty and Vallance have to consider all of these.

Hopefully - if we could delay it - we would have more ITU beds - and some of the experimental drugs being used would be further developed.

Also we don't know how long any immunity lasts - so those who get infected now - may not have immunity come December.

 

[Pale Rider]

Interesting but they seem to be looking very short term. What happens when the virus returns in the winter?

What is also interesting is seeing the normal scientific process played out in public. This debate is what happens normally through the peer review process. As scientists they are used to asking questions and critiquing the science however they do not have the wider picture to consider (I) public morale (ii) damage to the economy (iii) law and order. Boris, Whitty and Vallance have to consider all of these.

One of the things that impressed me about the trio's performance is they had considered the wider non-medical implications.

It would be easy to get wrapped up in the medical science and fail to acknowledge the other factors at play in fighting the virus.

 

[BoldonLad]

One of the things that impressed me about the trio's performance is they had considered the wider non-medical implications.

It would be easy to get wrapped up in the medical science and fail to acknowledge the other factors at play in fighting the virus.

Quite. IMHO the fall out from this situation is likely to go far beyond the medical considerations.

 

[kingrollo]

One of the things that impressed me about the trio's performance is they had considered the wider non-medical implications.

It would be easy to get wrapped up in the medical science and fail to acknowledge the other factors at play in fighting the virus.

Yeah I'm sure JRM has considered the effect on his hedge fund