Coronavirus outbreak

[icowden]

Sorry to here that but there is an agenda behind the whole virus. Did they die “of” or “with” Covid?

Couldn't leave it. Whether you die "of" or "with" is irrelevant. Covid may kill you by suffocating you (of) or it may be that you have a heart attack as you desperately try to breath, in which case it is "with". Either way, it is Covid's involvement that has killed you. Yes of course, the main source of deaths is elderly, and vulnerable people, but there are also many deaths of people who were fit and healthy. There are also fit and healthy people who are still trying to recover from "long covid". This is a nasty virus. Vaccination helps to ensure that if you are infected, your body has a head start in fighting it off.

The school age immunisations are a more interesting conundrum in that the virus has not been problematic for children, generally speaking. Doctors are a little divided as to the benefits of a school age immunisation programme. The key benefit is that children are spreading the virus and school age immunisation would help reduce this spread and the risk of infecting adults, rather than because it is necessarily a dangerous illness for children. In the same way, we vaccinate against Rubella, not because it is dangerous to children, but because of the risk of acquiring it during pregnancy which can cause serious in-utero problems.

 

[KnittyNorah]

@Milzy if I understood you correctly, you've previously posted that rather believing this covid denial stuff, you're playing the part of people you've observed doing it for real?

Reading the replies here, if that's the case, it might be time to consider stopping? Or at least making it very clear what you're about.

Actually I think Milzy's posts are useful. I don't know anyone IRL who is an anti-vaxxer (although plenty are a bit confused about how vaccines actually work, but that's OK; I'm often confused about how things work) so I appreciate the chance to 'practice' rebuttals. I run a small niche group for machine knitters who use a specific type of machine, and we have one member who has posted anti-vaxx stuff; it's good to be prepared and have practiced in advance!

 

[roubaixtuesday]

Actually I think Milzy's posts are useful. I don't know anyone IRL who is an anti-vaxxer (although plenty are a bit confused about how vaccines actually work, but that's OK; I'm often confused about how things work) so I appreciate the chance to 'practice' rebuttals. I run a small niche group for machine knitters who use a specific type of machine, and we have one member who has posted anti-vaxx stuff; it's good to be prepared and have practiced in advance!

I've no objection to @Milzy posts per se, but I think they are misleading some people as per the responses above. Would be useful to be clear if "playing a role" or actually holding opinions I think.

 

[KnittyNorah]

I've no objection to @Milzy posts per se, but I think they are misleading some people as per the responses above. Would be useful to be clear if "playing a role" or actually holding opinions I think.

I think it's fairly clear that he's 'playing a role' - he 'likes' the clear, factual rebuttals that are offered! But you are right that some people, especially those coming in newly to the thread, might be misled. Perhaps 'posting as the Devil's Advocate' or something, might make it more obvious!

 

[fossyant]

Couldn't leave it. Whether you die "of" or "with" is irrelevant. Covid may kill you by suffocating you (of) or it may be that you have a heart attack as you desperately try to breath, in which case it is "with". Either way, it is Covid's involvement that has killed you. Yes of course, the main source of deaths is elderly, and vulnerable people, but there are also many deaths of people who were fit and healthy. There are also fit and healthy people who are still trying to recover from "long covid". This is a nasty virus. Vaccination helps to ensure that if you are infected, your body has a head start in fighting it off.

This is the issue @Milzy.

Coming back into the office there are loads of staff who have relatives badly affected. One died of a heart attach whilst in hospital with covid aged just 60, another girl's dad caught it and ended up in ICU, and is suffering long covid now.

I've a mate who couldn't be bothered/didn't need it. Ended up in ICU and now has long covid.

The issue for most of us is the virus is a lottery, you might be fine, but, and something that's almost as devastating as being dead from it, is the long term damage and post viral issues - that really farks up your life, and I know of enough cases of that now.

You are talking 'rubbish' to put it politely, and it's these views, and those more extreme that are leading on the anti-vax nutters !

 

[fossyant]

I think it's fairly clear that he's 'playing a role' - he 'likes' the clear, factual rebuttals that are offered! But you are right that some people, especially those coming in newly to the thread, might be misled. Perhaps 'posting as the Devil's Advocate' or something, might make it more obvious!

Too many facts point against his 'view' / trolling.

 

[fossyant]

With coming back to work, everyone is asking how you've been. I'm being very careful and asking "how have you and your families been", as I'm seeing enough colleagues who have had a relative suffer badly (or even themselves). It's OK running round saying 'Im alright Jack'. but there are many folks that have been affected. No-one in my family has been ill, but there is a minority of members here that are of the 'I'm alright Jack' mentality.

 

[KnittyNorah]

Too many facts point against his 'view' / trolling.

I know that and you know that and I'm certain Milzy knows that; however he's said more than once that he's merely repeating the sort of things he's been told by anti-vaxxers.
I think the issue/problem might be that he's doing it without further comment or explanation in each and every post. I can understand both PsOV about it.

 

[KnittyNorah]

Sorry to here that but there is an agenda behind the whole virus. Did they die “of” or “with” Covid?

Milzy, can 'you' tell me more about this agenda?

 

[Alex321]

I think it's fairly clear that he's 'playing a role' - he 'likes' the clear, factual rebuttals that are offered! But you are right that some people, especially those coming in newly to the thread, might be misled. Perhaps 'posting as the Devil's Advocate' or something, might make it more obvious!

Yeah, I didn't get that at all, being new here.

 

[DCLane]

Students are back at my university; from what I've seen to date none are wearing face coverings and they're partying hard. Teaching starts Monday and I'm expecting issues soon after.

Son no. 2's school went against DofE advice and made face coverings mandatory again from today following a large increase in cases in the school.

SWMBO has been told to get her kit ready for when they re-open her hospital's Covid wards, expected to be soon. She's had enough experience to know when things are getting difficult. It'll mean another long, hard winter as she keeps patients nutritionally well whilst they're on a ventilator: it's through a tube and her patients have often lost their swallowing ability (usually temporary, sometimes permanently).

There's too many I know died and the trauma my wife's gone through for me to have patience with trolls/anti-vaxxers.

 

[Milzy]

I think it's fairly clear that he's 'playing a role' - he 'likes' the clear, factual rebuttals that are offered! But you are right that some people, especially those coming in newly to the thread, might be misled. Perhaps 'posting as the Devil's Advocate' or something, might make it more obvious!

All I’m saying is don’t believe everything you see in mainstream media. Has there ever been any false flags over the last 50 years or so? I’d say there has been many.

 

[DaveReading]

All I’m saying is don’t believe everything you see in mainstream media. Has there ever been any false flags over the last 50 years or so? I’d say there has been many.

A short list of the other conspiracy theories that you subscribe to might help to put your recent posts in context.

 

[Ajax Bay]

The latest uptick in infections might correspond to UK schools returning in early Sept.

That's a 'might'. Don't think there's evidence in the figures that that happened linked to the start of the school term. Too much noise. And effects of increased LFT funnelling to increased PCRs detecting more cases (rather than there Being more cases) - see https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/testing.
Edit: But case rates in under 19s are high: of course few of them have had a second dose and under 16s have had neither. On the plus side very very few will become so poorly they need hospital - hence the dropping hospitalisation rate (down 20+% since 6 Sep) and consequently the bed occupancy number is well down from its peak (1012 (UK) ten days ago) (NB note in line with estimate from 3 months ago about peak bed occupancy numbers).

 

[lazybloke]

That's a 'might'. Don't think there's evidence in the figures that that happened linked to the start of the school term. Too much noise. And effects of increased LFT funnelling to increased PCRs detecting more cases (rather than there Being more cases) - see https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/testing.
Edit: But case rates in under 19s are high: of course few of them have had a second dose and under 16s have had neither. On the plus side very very few will become so poorly they need hospital - hence the dropping hospitalisation rate (down 20+% since 6 Sep) and consequently the bed occupancy number is well down from its peak (1012 (UK) ten days ago) (NB note in line with estimate from 3 months ago about peak bed occupancy numbers).

To say that children are not at particular risk from covid is to miss the bigger picture.
Children need to be vaccinated because that's the only way to achieve herd immunity for everyone.

The elderly and the vulnerable have been double jabbed, but that gives only partial protection that diminishes over time. Exposing them to infected school children would be a mistake.

So of course the infection rates should be monitored, and I'm sure that uptick in infections during September will be under intense scrutiny.

It's not all doom & gloom; the worst of the pandemic is clearly behind us (in the UK). I would claim the same even if went into another lockdown, because vaccination has clearly been very beneficial. So let's finish the job.

There's one more reason to vaccinate the chidlren, and that's to ensure they have some protection against the next variants - which might not be so benign to them.
Sarah Gilbert predicted that covid would weaken over time, and eventually be no worse than a common cold. I certainly hope so, but the evolution of the variants so far suggests a different scenario. Let's continue jabbing.