Coronavirus outbreak

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Wobblers

Euthermic
Location
Minkowski Space
Does nobody see what I read?

"She can't smell, the smell of Chicken makes her ill."

How the f**k can she smell it if she can't smell!!

Do you understand that many deaf people can actually hear some sounds? And blind people who have some vestige of sight? But not enough to be useful, in either case. Same thing here. It's not an all-or-nothing thing. It's quite possible to lose your ability to smell most odours, and have the perception of what few you can still detect altered. When faced with an apparent contradiction like this, why not find out a little more about the issue? There are no shortage of internet search engines to help - and you'd learn more rather than have me bore you on the subject.

On restrictions, no one wants restrictions. I'd be delighted to be shot of them, and be able to get on with my life. But I also understand that with Delta, removing them will make things worse. If by extending them for a few more weeks means fewer problems in autumn and winter, that's not a terrible price to pay.

But at the moment, I'll continue to wear a mask, no matter that I'm not at all keen on the damned thing. Because both my parents are in their 80s, and have comorbidities that put them into the highest risk group. Yes, they've been vaccinated, but there's still about a 2% chance of death should I bring them a present of Covid. And I also understand that there's plenty of people in the same situation as I, so I'll keep wearing hte mask for them - after all, it's just simple consideration..
 

cambsno

Well-Known Member
"If we don't relax now, when can we" is not a reason. There's no reasoning involved for starters. It is a justification.

There are no shortage of reasons why removing all restrictions is a high risk course. Delta is considerably more transmittable than any other widespread variant - and is already spreading exponentially. This risks the NHS being overrun with Covid cases.

Furthermore, Covid does not just cause death. About 10% of those who contract it end up with long Covid - months of in some cases debilitating symptoms most notably persistent fatigue. A significant fraction - perhaps as high as 1% - will be unlucky enough to come out with more serious issues: many of which are likely to be permanently debilitating: strokes, heart damage, lung scarring, kidney damage. Treating and supporting these unfortunate people is an expense that will last years or decades. understand that the negative economic consequences of removing restrictions will be greater long term than the short term hit of not doing so. It is difficult to argue that removing restrictions makes economic sense.

Ok, so let's live in lockdown til 2024
 

Unkraut

Master of the Inane Comment
Location
Germany
Ok, so let's live in lockdown til 2024
It's the course of the virus that determines the response, not how fed up everyone is with the restrictions. Which everyone is.

There has been some considerable discussion of Boris wanting to ditch the restrictions here, especially in light of the 'life is going back to normal/the pandemic is over' message being sent out by full stadia during the football.

A report from Israel claimed a possible reduction in the effectiveness of BoiNTech down to 64% in face of the delta virus. A German virologist thought there is not enough data to make this claim yet, but that it is reasonable from what is known already that effectiveness might be down to around 90%. Time will tell.

In making his decision, Boris has factored in and accepted that the death rate will go up, and that long-term illness from covid will occur notwithstanding the younger end of the population will get it who tend to be better at fighting it off.

Boris has turned the UK into a giant laboratory experiment in that he is prepared to allow the delta virus to run rampant. There is consternation that failing to dampen down the infection rate and thereby having tens of thousands or more of infections each day could allow the virus to mutate, with the danger that newer versions get round the current vaccines.

I think most people get it that you cannot keep economies in lockdown for ever, and have to balance the damage to health and the healthcare system and livelihoods being lost. Never going to be an easy one to decide. From reading government information and from talking to friends in England I have gained the impression that govt action has been bureaucratic (as it has here) but has relied too much on a load of 'thou shalt not' commandments forbidding people from doing things, something here the govt has done a bit better on. Too much of this only produces in the end an attitude of defiance or rebellion, and if the ARD London correspondent was right that many in the UK have already decided in practice to ditch the hygiene rules and restrictions, the authoritarian approach might have something to do with it.

That said, the news claimed some 71% of Brits are not happy at the total lifting of restrictions. I don't know where they got this from, but they won't have made it up. At least it gives hope that some will continue to use good sense and recognise we are not out of the wood yet.
 

cambsno

Well-Known Member
We haven't been in lockdown for months and nobody is arguing for years of it. Are you scared or unable to argue against real views?

Restrictions then - I used to work with pubs in the past and know that many need the table service restriction to end in order to be viable, the longer this carry on the more pubs will close, jobs lost etc... People are meeting up in larger groups than allowed already.

The mask thing is a mistake, although they should be mandatory with no exceptions as too many 'cant' wear a mask. So in that respect its pretty much optional already!
 

mjr

Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
The infection rate in Sunderland has shot up [...] Not sure why we are doing so badly, but I suppose I'd better continue to keep my head down.
Plenty of suggestions in other posts, like:

People are meeting up in larger groups than allowed already. [...] too many 'cant' wear a mask.
but I guess you're right, we're not sure. I also feel there is a lack of urgency from government for finding out why because it would probably suggest continuing restrictions or imposing new ones and that doesn't fit Boris's irreversible narrative towards surrender.

Restrictions then - I used to work with pubs in the past and know that many need the table service restriction to end in order to be viable, the longer this carry on the more pubs will close, jobs lost etc...
I was at one place last week which was taking orders at a till by the garden entry, then you either took your drink(s) on the way to your table if the order was ready in the time it took to take payment (they were pretty fast) or it was brought over by waiting staff. If you wanted another, you actually went out the exit and back in again. I'm not sure if that was strictly legal under current restrictions, but it should be!

To be blunt, if carrying a few drinks to tables (collecting empties on the way back, although I bet that's more often than usual) is enough to send a pub under, then it probably wasn't going to survive next winter anyway. Should we really cause a lot more infections and a few more deaths to give such businesses a few more months trading?

People are meeting up in larger groups than allowed already.
If it's outdoors, 1m+ and groups aren't mixing, I would have relaxed the group size restriction further already, but I would make it that if one of such a group tests positive, they should all quarantine until two negative tests a few days apart, so that risk might motivate smaller groups.

The mask thing is a mistake, although they should be mandatory with no exceptions as too many 'cant' wear a mask. So in that respect its pretty much optional already!
I wouldn't say "no exceptions" but I would be in favour of proof to be carried and shown to public health officers on request.

The problem with lifting this particular restriction is that there are people who post (here and elsewhere) that they are currently covering their face when legally required but will bin their masks when the law is repealed, and decreasing use will increase transmission, so this change especially seems a pretty needless risk to take. Are enough people to make a difference to business survival really not going to the pub or whatever because they have to wear a mask to go to the bog? I suspect more are going to be deterred by the increase in unmasked nobbers in pubs, so this change will actually hurt them, even if there is no business-destroying surge in deaths.

We have seen repeatedly during this that there is a significant "me-me-me" group who won't do the right things voluntarily but will if they risk fines or even peer pressure, and the government maybe knows that there's enough of them to cause a bigger third wave. The most likely conclusion seems to be that they are trying the "herd immunity" gambit again, hoping that it won't flood the NHS this time (mainly due to vaccination), hoping it will be over before schools go back and sacrificing the smaller number of deaths and greater number of long-covid sufferers!
 

Bromptonaut

Rohan Man
Location
Bugbrooke UK
Do you understand that many deaf people can actually hear some sounds?

A colleague of mine, providing face to face advice to a deaf client who could make sense of either vibration, lip reading or both had a DWP employee comment 'she's not that deaf is she?'

Evelyn Glennie is an excellent example of a deaf person who appears to converse normally. I had a colleague in a previous job who could also do the same.
 

mjr

Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
More heavy lifting by that word!

It seemed to me from your previous posts you disapproved of this?
That's not heavy lifting, as it is only supporting a concluding description of what appears to me to be the case. I definitely didn't build a whole post on arguing against that perception (or for it, actually), which is what I think I pointed out earlier, and I'm open to other more likely conclusions being pointed out, if you have any, but I think you would have posted them if you did.
 

Bazzer

Setting the controls for the heart of the sun.
A colleague of mine, providing face to face advice to a deaf client who could make sense of either vibration, lip reading or both had a DWP employee comment 'she's not that deaf is she?'

Evelyn Glennie is an excellent example of a deaf person who appears to converse normally. I had a colleague in a previous job who could also do the same.
Indeed, her skills are beyond most people without hearing difficulties.
 
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