Coronavirus outbreak

[lane]

If the Government decides to go ahead with setting the date for Phase 4 relaxation as 21 Jun, they will be doing so on the basis of the data available, assessed by the best brains UK has (SAGE, CSA, CMO). Some may think that the data should interpreted differently. The 4 tests have been clearly spelt out: I've shared my assessment of the likelihood of those tests being "passed" (based on a projection from current data) upthread ^^^ - to save you the effort I've pasted them below (thanks @PK99 ). Successfully, sufficiently, unsustainable, fundamentally.
Who else do you think is the best body to make that judgement?
"Only when the government is sure that it is safe to move from one step to the next will the final decision be made. The decision will be based on four tests:

• the vaccine deployment programme continues successfully
• evidence shows vaccines are sufficiently effective in reducing hospitalisations and deaths in those vaccinated
• infection rates do not risk a surge in hospitalisations which would put unsustainable pressure on the NHS
• our assessment of the risks is not fundamentally changed by new Variants of Concern."

I'm sure this dispationate analysis doesn't happen in a vaccum when you have backbenchers and key elements of the press shouting OPEN Up!!

 

[Ajax Bay]

And loads of others whose contributions should be (and are being) heard say "Later!" Would you prefer to live in an oxygen-free, authoritarian Dystopia?
Edit: Share a plan; set out the tests; gather the data; seek sage advice; and decide. Delay is not procrastination per se.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

If the Government decides to go ahead with setting the date for Phase 4 relaxation as 21 Jun, they will be doing so on the basis of the data available, assessed by the best brains UK has (SAGE, CSA, CMO)

(My emphasis).

Much more likely they'll be doing it on the basis of politics and wishful thinking.

The views of those August bodies have been duly ignored multiple times before. Why should that suddenly change now?

 

[midlife]

Slightly off topic but still outbreak related.

16 year old has finished school early by 6 weeks to allow the teachers time to sort out his GCSE results. Back in September 6th form, all students can go into 6th form whatever their results.

 

[Johnno260]

Slightly off topic but still outbreak related.

16 year old has finished school early by 6 weeks to allow the teachers time to sort out his GCSE results. Back in September 6th form, all students can go into 6th form whatever their results.

I wouldn’t really say it’s off topic, but it’s something that gets overlooked often, the kids in exam years I really feel for, it’s a stressful time as it is an having this disruption and uncertainty won’t help.

 

[DCLane]

Slightly off topic but still outbreak related.

16 year old has finished school early by 6 weeks to allow the teachers time to sort out his GCSE results. Back in September 6th form, all students can go into 6th form whatever their results.

Hopefully he'll do OK. My youngest finished last year and the grades were sorted out.

However, a lot of those given unconditional offers for 6th form decided to go since they had nothing else planned. It's meant issues for the 6th form and quite a number have since left.

 

[PK99]

Blackpool and the whole of the fylde coast has been packed this half term.Im not sure what the difference of opening up means ? There's queues at the Wetherspoons from 8 in the morning on the seafront.

You mean a disappointingly large proportion of British Jo Public are stupid and do stupid things then blame the government?

 

[mjr]

You mean a disappointingly large proportion of British Jo Public are stupid and do stupid things then blame the government?

Why do you keep on against people called Jo?

 

[mjr]

Belgium now vaccinating 18+. Not using AZ at all for them mainly because all doses now held are for seconds. Seems to be mostly Pfizer-BioNTech.

Netherlands down to 35. Not sure what they are using.

 

[Adam4868]

You mean a disappointingly large proportion of British Jo Public are stupid and do stupid things then blame the government?

Not really....most things are open.Funfair,Tower,Pubs etc.Half term good weather did they honestly think people weren't desperate to get out and enjoy themselves ?

 

[Deleted User]

You mean a disappointingly large proportion of British Jo Public are stupid and do stupid things then blame the government?

I would only guess that the above people aren't the ones moaning about the government (if they are then they really are stupid) but the people NOT doing the above but witnessing it.

I'm hoping for things to get back to normal on the 21st and will be taking full advantage but if there's a rise in cases then I'm not going to blame the Government for allowing me more freedom?

 

[Rocky]

Just in case we are in any doubt about the role of the government:

It is the first responsibility of government in a democratic society to protect and safeguard the lives of its citizens. That is where the public interest lies.

https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/home-office/about

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld200405/ldjudgmt/jd041216/a&oth-6.htm

So surely, if the government has data which suggest that the dangers from the pandemic and, in particular, variant strains of Covid, outweigh the benefits of a further opening up, it is its duty to prolong the restrictive measures.

 

[bitsandbobs]

Belgium now vaccinating 18+. Not using AZ at all for them mainly because all doses now held are for seconds. Seems to be mostly Pfizer-BioNTech.

Netherlands down to 35. Not sure what they are using.

Pfizer and Moderna. Janssen got canned last week. Haven't seen AZ for weeks.

 

[Ajax Bay]

Just in case we are in any doubt about the role of the government:
"It is the first responsibility of government in a democratic society to protect and safeguard the lives of its citizens. That is where the public interest lies."
https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld200405/ldjudgmt/jd041216/a&oth-6.htm
So surely, if the government has data which suggest that the dangers from the pandemic and, in particular, variant strains of Covid, outweigh the benefits of a further opening up, it is its duty to prolong the restrictive measures.

Thank you for sharing that and helping others wallowing in the dubious swamps,
In the same vein, therefore, "surely" you'd agree that:
if the government has data which suggest that the dangers from the pandemic and, in particular, variant strains of Covid, are outweighed by the benefits of 'opening up further', it is its duty to minimise the restrictive measures and their duration.

Going to your link, you quoted the first of two "cardinal" principles offered in the judgement. I share the others:
"It is the first responsibility of government in a democratic society to protect and safeguard the lives of its citizens. That is where the public interest lies.
"the court [and by implication it thinks the government has this duty/responsibility too] has another duty too. It is to protect and safeguard the rights of the individual. Among these rights is the individual's right to liberty."
"There is a third principle which the court must also recognise when it is called upon to perform its central function [and by implication it thinks the government has this duty/responsibility too] , which is to strike the balance between the public interest and the right to liberty."

 

[matticus]

Can I pick any 2?