Coronavirus outbreak

[johnblack]

Passing the buck to headteachers so they can take all the flack from the “why are you muzzling my child” parents.

When the Government make centralised rules to education and the NHS they are criticised for not letting the people on the ground decide what is best, local rules made locally, when they leave the decision up to the schools, they are criticised.

 

[matticus]

I am over 50 and I care very much.

Even if I tell you that you don't? How can you be sure??

EDIT: Oldhippy, several members have declared that others here "don't care", presumably due to their finely tuned internet telepathy skills.

 

[Oldhippy]

?

 

[kingrollo]

When the Government make centralised rules to education and the NHS they are criticised for not letting the people on the ground decide what is best, local rules made locally, when they leave the decision up to the schools, they are criticised.

When the 2nd wave has killed 80k people, and central gov't has access to epidemiologists, top Scientists - it seems absurd to hand key decisions on unprotected members of society to head teachers.

 

[matticus]

When the 2nd wave has killed 80k people, and central gov't has access to epidemiologists, top Scientists - it seems absurd to hand key decisions on unprotected members of society to head teachers.

This is a claggy discussion, but in reality head teachers make hundreds of health/safety decisions about their wards every year.
(guided by government departments). People in charge of workplaces do the same thing. It's an established system that has slashed workplace deaths* injuries over the past few decades (dunno about schools, sorry).


*I nearly forgot: if I mention deaths, someone will say that's all I care about.

 

[Rocky]

This is a claggy discussion, but in reality head teachers make hundreds of health/safety decisions about their wards every year.
(guided by government departments). People in charge of workplaces do the same thing. It's an established system that has slashed workplace deaths* injuries over the past few decades (dunno about schools, sorry).


*I nearly forgot: if I mention deaths, someone will say that's all I care about.

For what it's worth, I've spoken about this with my niece's husband who is the head of an inner city comp. He is crying out for these decisions to be made centrally - he is fed up with getting the blame from a small group of parents when they don't agree with a particular decision. He has so many things on his plate at the moment, that this may be the straw that breaks his particular camel's back.

 

[marinyork]

This is a claggy discussion, but in reality head teachers make hundreds of health/safety decisions about their wards every year.
(guided by government departments). People in charge of workplaces do the same thing. It's an established system that has slashed workplace deaths* injuries over the past few decades (dunno about schools, sorry).


*I nearly forgot: if I mention deaths, someone will say that's all I care about.

The HSE did thousands of inspections and no prohibition orders. Whereas councils and the police have taken action against those not suplosed to be open. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...workplaces-that-are-putting-employees-at-risk

Some workplaces have done a good job, others not. There are no consequences if they do a bad job. It's moral hazard.

When I wrote a risk assessment I got hold of templates and consultation with others. I was really shocked that many just had very airy fairy death and spread of covid and nothing about hospitalisations and focussed on hand hygiene. Some were done by people on very sumptuous salaries.

 

[marinyork]

I am over 50 and I care very much.

Many over 50s care about it. I see it on phone ins and on the news. One of my former colleagues was saying on the phone they're fed up for their 17 year old granddaughter whose work hopes have gone up in smoke and can't have a life (by this she means friends and dating). We had quite a funny discussion about what it might be like for those age groups, but there were some very serious bits.

But I also see a lot where the vaccines have clearly warped peoples' perceptions and people saying things should open up because they've had/having a jab. If this forum was full of people in their teens, 20s and 30s there'd be a very different side of the pandemic talked about with some wanting things opened up, the economic side talked about far more, but also a lot others seriously unhappy about being sacrificial lambs so someone who is 50 can enjoy a pint indoors with 5 mates, or later even more, whilst someone works for minimum wage and is hospitalised or gets long covid. If there were more women on the forum they'd probably be quite a different flavour to the discussions.

It's not even the first time this has happened, a broadly similar thing happened during swine flu where those over 41 (which coincides with almost the same age group of over 50s) just got 'lucky' because they had cross-immunity whilst loads of younger people got quite a nasty illness, hospitalised or died. Except covid-19 is a lot nastier than swine flu. Why would you not expect it to happen again? I expect it to. This time there's no tamiflu (which it turns out didn't work very well anyway but what people believe at the time is important)!

Ultimately whatever age anyone is it is in everyone's interests to be as careful as possible to get cases down super low, backward tracing, vaccinations, vaccinating our neighbours such as the Republic of Ireland and helping out the third world. Otherwise we get a 3rd wave that's worse than it needs to be and those over 50s who've been vaccinated get things taken away again or stuff getting kicked into the long grass.

Many areas seem to be having a slow down, where the fall in cases has become very gradual or even going up again. A lot of the points I've made are based on the B117 cases around Christmas and how explosive this new variant is and in Israel where the cases are very high. The mutations happening anyway in this country independently of South Africa/Brazil/Califirnia/many places on earth undetected too.

 

[fossyant]

Oof

Not going well over the water.

Asked whether she would volunteer to be administered with the vaccine, Merkel added: “I am 66 years old and I do not belong to the recommended group for AstraZeneca.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...xford-covid-jabs-delivered-to-eu-not-yet-used

 

[Oldhippy]

Totally agree Marin.

 

[matticus]

For what it's worth, I've spoken about this with my niece's husband who is the head of an inner city comp. He is crying out for these decisions to be made centrally - he is fed up with getting the blame from a small group of parents when they don't agree with a particular decision. He has so many things on his plate at the moment, that this may be the straw that breaks his particular camel's back.

I can well believe that. It may well be that due to extreme public distress, it would be better to make central decisions on this exceptional situation.

But:

When the Government make centralised rules to education and the NHS they are criticised for not letting the people on the ground decide what is best, local rules made locally, when they leave the decision up to the schools, they are criticised.

... and I was making the point that there is good historical precedent for localised policy-setting. End of!

 

[PK99]

When the Government make centralised rules to education and the NHS they are criticised for not letting the people on the ground decide what is best, local rules made locally, when they leave the decision up to the schools, they are criticised.

I've commented previously that the public in general, and sometimes individuals, are oxymoronic in their attitudes towards, demands on, and criticism of Government.

It's a bit like "Damned if they do. Damned if they don't"

You highlight a perfect example of this:
"On the one hand, some want A. On the other hand, some want B.", where A and B are incompatible or mutually exclusive.

 

[matticus]

?

EDIT: Oldhippy, several members have declared that others here "don't care", presumably due to their finely tuned internet telepathy skills.

 

[marinyork]

... and I was making the point that there is good historical precedent for localised policy-setting. End of!

I see covid as quite different to decades of general workplace stuff that's evolved. If we had an Ebola outbreak or a MERS outbreak would you let a headteacher deal with it? I frigging well wouldn't and especially not looking at some of the risk assessments out there and gigantic variations in efforts and facilities.

Safeguarding, digital challenges and although I'm a fan of mass testing, the mass testing plans are quite a lot to deal with already.

I have acquaintances who are admin staff, they are very unhappy about headteachers' say goes, partly because they are the ones that have to ring up PHE and then stuck between these two competing forces. I also know someone who volunteers in schools, the headteachers won't give a monkeys about volunteers in some cases, they are expendable, they aren't even their staff! It's all get in as many volunteers as possible to dig us out of a hole.

 

[matticus]

I see covid as quite different to decades of general workplace stuff that's evolved. If we had an Ebola outbreak or ...

I refer you to the first line of my post.