You can remember Florence Nightingale? ...
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Pale Rider
Legendary Member
More than 30 virus restriction breaches in Birmingham on a single night.
Given that the clear up rate for minor crime is under 10%, it's a reasonable inference to draw there were hundreds of other breaches which were not detected.
Neither should Birmingham be regarded as breach hotspot - we just happened to have been told about the situation there.
Chances are the same is happening in towns and cities across the country.
All of which I reckon adds up to significant non-compliance.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-55786863
Given that the clear up rate for minor crime is under 10%, it's a reasonable inference to draw there were hundreds of other breaches which were not detected.
Neither should Birmingham be regarded as breach hotspot - we just happened to have been told about the situation there.
Chances are the same is happening in towns and cities across the country.
All of which I reckon adds up to significant non-compliance.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-55786863
kingrollo
Guru
Assuming you're correct. - what action do you think should be taken to enforce complaince ?
Joey Shabadoo
My pronouns are "He", "Him" and "buggerlugs"
Joey Shabadoo
My pronouns are "He", "Him" and "buggerlugs"
Firm but fair, that's me.
Pale Rider
Legendary Member
Most realistic options are being taken already.
The coppers have recently started to nick more people publicly, urging the public to comply continues, and it looks like the fines for more egregious breaches are being increased.
I'd be tempted to lock up a few, but that's difficult given the offences are non-imprisonable.
The situation does indicate why the claims of mis-management by the government are so wide of the mark.
Ultimately, the rules will not work if the public choose to ignore them, no matter how cleverly those rules are thought out.
roubaixtuesday
self serving virtue signaller
Most people comply with the rules.
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19...ince-first-lockdown-new-data-reveals-12186138
It's a tempting narrative to believe that individual rule breaking is the problem, but it just doesn't seem to be the driver.
Rather:
The rules are too lax. Compared to licorice one: Far more children are allowed in school. Far more people are at work.
An exception: There is a whole swathe of people for whom isolating means poverty and hunger. Unsurprisingly, this is where compliance is low, and enforcement will not merely fail, but actively harm the response - these people will just choose not to be tested.
kingrollo
Guru
No one has ever said we have 100% complaince.
Therefore the 30 incidents in Birmingham (population 2m ???) Are well within the 8% of suggested non compliance. Indeed as @Pale Rider says there were probably more..taking us a tad closer to the 8% non compliance...how close ..who knows.
Rather than bigger fines I'd like to see increased detection -if people know they have reasonable chance of being caught fined they are more likely to comply.
Funny story -friend of my son's actually has covid -was that hacked off with being ill -he started to get the music vibes , louder, louder , it went ....he got a knock on the door ...they thought he was having a party 😂🤣
roubaixtuesday
self serving virtue signaller
I'm not against detection and enforcement, but it needs to be in context.
Context being that London/Dubai has been allowed to become the busiest air route in the world, and 40% of kids are in primary school.
All the evidence us that lack of compliance is not what is driving the epidemic, except for people who can't afford to comply.
- Location
- Somewhere wet & hilly in NW England.
Isn't the problem with deducing accurate non-compliance figures hindered by some people not 'confessing' when asked and also being influenced by the (based on our experience of family and friends) warped assumptions such as "it's my daughter/son and they know what they are doing", "I can't see what difference our family makes", "they had a test (lateral flow) a few weeks ago so they must be ok" rollocks that we've heard trotted out from people that are still not complying.
The targeting of groups of >15 groups of people is laudable and at the end of the day the number has to be high enough to give the stretched Police a least a fighting chance of catching the worst offenders.
My guess, based on our own experiences as above, is that there are many more lower level rule breaches going on right now that are under the radar so to speak.
Re lower demographics - yes I understand the difficulties cited up-thread re compliance but the people that we know (now at 11 families and 4 by indirect association) who are quite frankly taking the proverbial are very definitely not in that demographic.
Relationships are being sorely tested here tbh.
The targeting of groups of >15 groups of people is laudable and at the end of the day the number has to be high enough to give the stretched Police a least a fighting chance of catching the worst offenders.
My guess, based on our own experiences as above, is that there are many more lower level rule breaches going on right now that are under the radar so to speak.
Re lower demographics - yes I understand the difficulties cited up-thread re compliance but the people that we know (now at 11 families and 4 by indirect association) who are quite frankly taking the proverbial are very definitely not in that demographic.
Relationships are being sorely tested here tbh.
kingrollo
Guru
Oh agreed. There's a locally reported story around here about an Outbreak traced to a McDonald store -2members of staff tested positive ..and of those had a family member requiring hospital treatment.
deptfordmarmoset
Full time tea drinker
- Location
- Armonmy Way
What do we do when known fraudsters encourage their employers to defy isolation rules? Give them a knighthood, probably. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-mass-covid-outbreak-at-top-government-agency
Glad the point about demographics being reported has been spotted. Which is playing very nicely into the some sort of new deserving poor but now it's covid. The only time press look interested is when higher class get done for braking rules they believe wrongly. Not too long ago a we had the case of two well turned out friends and meeting for coffee walk. If it was two from the local estate not a chance. Yes compliance is part of the problem I see every day down out street inc next door.I'be got family going the same too. If we are going after this then let's get real and deal with every part of this swiss cheese approach inc the total get out of jail card called bubbles. Child care is just that not a send all day round your mums or call in for tea. Support bubbles are not a pick and mix to meet up. The guidelines are clear yet no one ever go's for them. The government just won't touch it the yummy mummy won't like it much better to go after the poor and blame them.
But we have to see past the smoke screen this mess is not down to us. When the rules have more you can do then you can't you've a problem. When your told stay home ...but. It's not enforcement that's key to this but the message and people saying not being seen as believable or credible. The big over arching issue is we have government who did not have the ball's to do this right when it had the chance. We did not let covid run amok over and over again they did they never got it then and still don't.
But we have to see past the smoke screen this mess is not down to us. When the rules have more you can do then you can't you've a problem. When your told stay home ...but. It's not enforcement that's key to this but the message and people saying not being seen as believable or credible. The big over arching issue is we have government who did not have the ball's to do this right when it had the chance. We did not let covid run amok over and over again they did they never got it then and still don't.
mjr
Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
- Location
- mostly Norfolk, sometimes Somerset
Riots against curfew in NL, test centre set ablaze https://www.thejournal.ie/netherlands-protests-coronavirus-5334681-Jan2021/
