Corona Virus: How Are We Doing?

[lane]

Son told to self isolate by the app in the early hours. Went to wake him up this morning and there is a large note on his bedroom door (which I missed and went in his room anyway!)

Feels a bit unsatisfactory. He has a small group of friends he says have the app and none of them told to isolate or have symptoms. Therefore seems like it must certainly be in college - probably in class because. But college have their own system for identifying close contacts and he has not been contacted by the college. He has been told 10 days.

 

[winjim]

Without properly referenced sources and data, and despite protestations to the contrary, we're moving dangerously close to conspiracy theory territory here.

 

[PK99]

What your view be on this?

We have gone into tier 2. Yesterday my son who is 17 met his friends outside for a good part of the day. I asked him what he thought about this.

He said that one of his friend's parents had said he was still welcome in their house. They live about a mile away and are not in tier 2. I asked what he thought about that. He said on the one hand (1) I don't think the tier 2 was really for where we live (which is probably correct because our area borders both Nottingham (highest cases in the country) and Derby which is not in tier two and has quite low cases. We live right at the Derby side and right at the edge of the tier 2 area. (2) I sit next to my friend on the bus for 40 minutes twice a day and spend time with them at college as well - so I am spending a lot of time indoors with them anyway. On the other hand I was probably spending too much time indoors with other people anyway.

Myself on the one hand I think it we don't follow the rules what is the point and on the other I doubt it would make any difference if he went to see his friend in their house. So really not sure what to say to him.

My personal approach is that if I do not follow the rules because I think they are not necessary for me, I have no right to criticize anyone else for not following the rules.

 

[IaninSheffield]

as much as I admire the efforts of most teachers during normal times, there are some seem to be using the current difficulties to their own advantage.

Could you say a little more about how teachers are using this 'to their own advantage'?

 

[fossyant]

We should be following the rules as much as possible - we've been in restrictions since July, and the rates have rocketed all over. I've yet to meet anyone that's caught the virus, but we're all following the rules. There are far too many ignoring it hence the rocket in cases. My neighbour is a local practice nurse and she's been having large family gatherings most Friday nights ! My area was dragged into the GM restrictions despite being very low. All gone to pot now the schools and colleges are back - rocketing infections from schools, and parents not stopping the kids meeting outside school - still see big groups of teenagers.

All we can do is manage the rate the hospitals will fill up, hence thinking maybe the resources should go into enabling more shielding (priority deliveries etc).

 

[lazybloke]

More confirmed cases reported by our local school. Doesn't affect our kids as they're already at home in self-isolation, but the school now has more pupils in self-isolation than not; they've sent FIVE entire year-groups home! (out of a total of 7).
I feared the horrors of home-schooling again, but this time they've worked out how to run lessons over Teams - it works absolutely brilliantly.

 

[lane]

Son told to self isolate by the app in the early hours. Went to wake him up this morning and there is a large note on his bedroom door (which I missed and went in his room anyway!)

Feels a bit unsatisfactory. He has a small group of friends he says have the app and none of them told to isolate or have symptoms. Therefore seems like it must certainly be in college - probably in class because. But college have their own system for identifying close contacts and he has not been contacted by the college. He has been told 10 days.

I have now contacted the college and they say if it is the app has detected you are in proximity to someone you can ignore it - especially if it is in college because they carry out their own tracking of close contacts in the college. Realistically it couldn't have been anywhere else so the who app thing seems to be a waste of time.

 

[Unkraut]

The number of deaths expected at any particular time of year is predictable.

I think the point is that over a longer period of time, the virus will not have been found to have been particularly lethal. I was very surprised the first time I heard this.

Boris Palmer, the Green (please note) Bürgermeister of Tübingen made the statement 'we are risking ruining the economy in order to save people who would have been dead in a few months anyway'. It was live radio and his has since apologised for the rather crass formulation.

Some of the membership wanted him removed, the leader distanced himself from the statement because it was offensive, but didn't deal with the argument. The tone mattered more than the substance. The state has a constitutional duty of care to its citizens, and a mauled economy will reduce its ability to achieve this through reduced income and resources, let alone the damage unemployment does when people experience it, or the damage this is doing to primary age school children found in a study published a couple of days ago.

There may be arguments against Palmer's position, but the debate needs to be had and not suppressed.

 

[Julia9054]

Could you say a little more about how teachers are using this 'to their own advantage'?

Quite.
It is a major pain having pupil officially self isolating as you now have to set them work as well as do your day job.
Even if we didn‘t, we would be responsible for catching them up when they returned - yet more work. I can’t possibly see what sort of advantage I would get for having pupils in my class self isolating.

 

[C R]

I think the point is that over a longer period of time, the virus will not have been found to have been particularly lethal. I was very surprised the first time I heard this.

Boris Palmer, the Green (please note) Bürgermeister of Tübingen made the statement 'we are risking ruining the economy in order to save people who would have been dead in a few months anyway'. It was live radio and his has since apologised for the rather crass formulation.

Some of the membership wanted him removed, the leader distanced himself from the statement because it was offensive, but didn't deal with the argument. The tone mattered more than the substance. The state has a constitutional duty of care to its citizens, and a mauled economy will reduce its ability to achieve this through reduced income and resources, let alone the damage unemployment does when people experience it, or the damage this is doing to primary age school children found in a study published a couple of days ago.

There may be arguments against Palmer's position, but the debate needs to be had and not suppressed.

The number of excess deaths is such that we are not looking at deaths that might have happened in a few months anyway. At least in the UK we are looking at close to a 50% increase, things might be different in Germany.

On top of the increased mortality we also have the increased morbidity with significant numbers of long covid cases among working age people. The long term effects on these people's lives and cost to the health service will not be insignificant.

 

[srw]

I was very surprised the first time I heard this.

It isn't true. This was exposed, debated thoroughly and debunked way back in the summer.

The dichotomy between saving the economy and saving lives is a false one. You save the economy by saving lives. Killing people, or making them sick, is bad for the economy.

 

[lazybloke]

I have now contacted the college and they say if it is the app has detected you are in proximity to someone you can ignore it - especially if it is in college because they carry out their own tracking of close contacts in the college. Realistically it couldn't have been anywhere else so the who app thing seems to be a waste of time.

Here's an article that explores the inaccuracies of bluetooth proximity detection in the app.

 

[lane]

Here's an article that explores the inaccuracies of bluetooth proximity detection in the app.

I think the app detected it in a classroom but per the college seating plan he hasn't been told to isolate so I think that's all we can go with. At least he won't need to isolate for 10 days and i think I will suggest he turns the scanning off on the app it just creates a lot of unnecessary hassle.

 

[C R]

I think the app detected it in a classroom but per the college seating plan he hasn't been told to isolate so I think that's all we can go with. At least he won't need to isolate for 10 days and i think I will suggest he turns the scanning off on the app it just creates a lot of unnecessary hassle.

On the other hand you could say that the app is telling the college that their method is not picking up all close contacts.

 

[Bazzer]

Could you say a little more about how teachers are using this 'to their own advantage'?

Quite.
It is a major pain having pupil officially self isolating as you now have to set them work as well as do your day job.
Even if we didn‘t, we would be responsible for catching them up when they returned - yet more work. I can’t possibly see what sort of advantage I would get for having pupils in my class self isolating.

I do not doubt getting a pupil who is officially self isolating to catch up can be a major pain, in the same way as catching up a child who before the pandemic, might have been off with a illness. I am talking about online lessons not being given to whole classes who are not in school. My sister had repeatedly spoken of this and I saw it for myself for the first time three weeks ago, with another of her sons, whose whole year group had been sent home and whom she had asked me keep an eye on for part of the day. No online lessons for my nephew in the morning and at lunchtime, his computer screen showed all his classmates present for the lesson, but no teacher. The teacher logged on 20 minutes late and after 15 minutes the lesson was stopped. I get there can be technical problems, but this wasn't the first time it had happened, nor has it been the last.
Some of child 2's on line lessons at college are also suffering. For example, lecturers not logging on on time; lecturers deciding to have a tea break part way through the tutorial. She even has one whose tutorials are frequently interrupted by the lecturer's dog barking and generally making a nuisance in the background.
Would schools and colleges seriously tolerate this if lessons/ lectures were in person?
And whilst I don't have teaching experience, it is very close to home. My wife was a teacher for over 30 years and was a SENCO for the majority of that time in three different schools. And child 1 is an assistant head and an LA specialist maths teacher, whose school had to stay open during the lockdown. Some of the comments she makes after visiting schools since September echo what my daughter and nephews are finding.