Corona Virus: How Are We Doing?

[Andy in Germany]

- The science shows only very small benefits for anyone from masks. MANY studies showed no benefit. Most studies show disadvantages, and increases in certain risks; it's hardly surprising that the science is unclear to many people.

I am afraid you are wrong on this point.

Apart from anything else, the notion that face masks are ineffective and possibly counterproductive would be a shock to generations of doctors and could revolutionise surgical procedure.

 

[MntnMan62]

That's the subject of another thread, this one is about how people are/have been affected by the current situation.

And the piece in italic bold is money. Something you're not mentioning.

How is the requirement to wear masks about money? The science backs their use. Full stop.

 

[Rocky]

Apart from anything else, the notion that face masks are ineffective and possibly counterproductive would be a shock to generations of doctors and could revolutionise surgical procedure.

That's a very good point you make!!

 

[MntnMan62]

Let's look at this more closely, in 3 simple points:
- You started talking about re-opening schools, and how this was dangerous. How did children get morphed into an economic issue?
- The science shows only very small benefits for anyone from masks. MANY studies showed no benefit. Most studies show disadvantages, and increases in certain risks; it's hardly surprising that the science is unclear to many people.
- Everyone's circumstances are different - so you can't know what their risks are. Your binary classification of the world's population is therefore absurd.

Period.

And there are competing studies that are saying that the science behind masks is that they work, for both the wearer and those around them. What's amazing is that people look to so called "studies" yet no one is willing to see that when people social distanced and wore masks, the number of cases and deaths went down significantly. And once people decided they were done with social distancing and wearing masks, the numbers of cases and deaths has skyrocketed. How is that not the best scientific study there is?

 

[Slick]

Aberdeen in lockdown again for next 7 days.
Breach of social distancing in the pubs, 54 new cases (so far).
I despair.

I nearly tagged you in the other thread as I was hearing murmurings of a lockdown last night and wondered if you knew more.

Take care.

 

[Mrs M]

I nearly tagged you in the other thread as I was hearing murmurings of a lockdown last night and wondered if you knew more.

Take care.

Thanks, will do
I recently requested to work from home and this will be happening soon.
We’re 7 miles from the city so less risk, hopefully.

 

[matticus]

And there are competing studies that are saying that the science behind masks is that they work, for both the wearer and those around them. What's amazing is that people look to so called "studies" yet no one is willing to see that when people social distanced and wore masks, the number of cases and deaths went down significantly. And once people decided they were done with social distancing and wearing masks, the numbers of cases and deaths has skyrocketed. How is that not the best scientific study there is?

It's a very poor study of MASK wearing!

This is really simple - masks have a very small benefit (most of you have seen the studies and WHO statements, you don't need ME to show them to you again). Lockdowns (i.e. staying the feck away from other people) are far more effective.
If this person* wants to get all frothy over mask-wearing, I can't stop you - have fun.


*EDIT: What I actually wrote was a term for a group who love each-other, and engage in internet pile-ons rather than engage in reasoned debate. The mods quite rightly removed it for being a bit OTT

 

[fossyant]

Lots of folk still not getting it, my son being one. Posted else where I had a barney with him last night. He's been mixing with quite a few friends over the last week, despite the new rules around Gtr Manchester. The Govt need to stop messing about and saying you can't be in someone's garden, when they allow folk to meet up inside a pub or else where. Basically stay away from anyone other than those you live with or are in the support bubble (said bubble gets interpreted as folk feel).

This isn't going away.

 

[matticus]

I am afraid you are wrong on this point. Here's an article from the University of California setting out the science.

https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/4...s-heres-science-behind-how-face-masks-prevent

With regards to risks, the major harm comes from people talking about perceived risks where, actually, there are no risks. Marteau's article in the BMJ sums this up:

https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m2913

Bruce, do you realise that everything I wrote is backed up by something in 1 (or both) of your citations?

Thankyou for your endorsement (although it was a bit back-handed :P )

 

[MntnMan62]

It's a very poor study of MASK wearing!

This is really simple - masks have a very small benefit (most of you have seen the studies and WHO statements, you don't need ME to show them to you again). Lockdowns (i.e. staying the feck away from other people) are far more effective.
If this person* wants to get all frothy over mask-wearing, I can't stop you - have fun.


*EDIT: What I actually wrote was a term for a group who love each-other, and engage in internet pile-ons rather than engage in reasoned debate. The mods quite rightly removed it for being a bit OTT

https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/4...s-heres-science-behind-how-face-masks-prevent

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/hea.../coronavirus-face-masks-what-you-need-to-know

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-mask/art-20485449

This is really simple - masks provide a significant benefit to both those who wear the mask and those in proximity of the mask wearer (most of you have seen the studies but here are the current recommendations and basis for those recommendations from three different highly respected medical research facilities. And contrary to this poster's comments, the WHO guidance is to wear masks.

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/06/who-updates-guidance-on-masks-heres-what-to-know-now/

If this person wants to get all frothy over mask wearing, I can't stop you - have fun.

 

[classic33]

How about taking the mask wearing debate to the main corona virus thread?
https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/coronavirus-outbreak.256913/

 

[matticus]

OK, you've convinced me. As I don't agree with some of the things you've written about risk calculations, it's clear I am in the 2nd half of your binary classification system:

That just shows you how divided people are about how to approach this entire virus. There are those who understand what is at stake, value human life and are willing to do their small part to try and bring this thing under control. Then there are those who only think about themselves, deny the science and don't care that people are dying. It's really just as simple as that.

I suggest you block me, and furthermore report me to the police and whichever deity you worship.


Wow, I feel so much better now! Life was complicated with spectrums of views and awkward "probablities" :-( Now I know that life is simple and certain! Everything is black and white - it's so clear now.

 

[matticus]

How about taking the mask wearing debate to the main corona virus thread?
https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/coronavirus-outbreak.256913/

To be fair, this sub-topic isn't about mask wearing - it's about HOW WE FEEL about what others do! And how we feel better by criticising others. have you tried it??

 

[MntnMan62]

OK, you've convinced me. As I don't agree with some of the things you've written about risk calculations, it's clear I am in the 2nd half of your binary classification system:

I suggest you block me, and furthermore report me to the police and whichever deity you worship.


Wow, I feel so much better now! Life was complicated with spectrums of views and awkward "probablities" :-( Now I know that life is simple and certain! Everything is black and white - it's so clear now.


View attachment 540102

Well, isn't that just special. I don't agree with some of the things you've written about risk calculations and it's clear you don't even bother reading what I post. I suggest you block me and report me to the police or whatever right wing fanatical group you belong to. I won't be blocking you because you make it so easy to show how little you know about anything. Picking your dated and incorrect information is just too easy. And fun too. If only things were so clear to you.

 

[SpokeyDokey]

Mod note:

Reading back a few pages a few snarky remarks have appeared in this thread - please stop.

If it continues we will take the thread offline until it can be cleaned up and, as it is very topical, we are not too keen on doing that.

Thanks in advance for your cooperation.