Chain Rotation

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Ming the Merciless

There is no mercy
Location
Inside my skull
And it's no big deal - especially when waxed as there's no degreasing involved.

i don't degrease with oil. Not necessary. I do single rides longer than your rotating chains malarkey. Simply would not work for audax
 

Ming the Merciless

There is no mercy
Location
Inside my skull
Their testing encompasses many wax products, not just those they're connected with

But look at their extrapolated (not confirmed) costs. They simply do not add up. Riders using oil for chains in real world simply do not spend anywhere near that much per 10,000km.

They are so far out of whack, suggests their modelling is seriously wrong.
 
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PedallingNowhereSlowly

PedallingNowhereSlowly

Senior Member
Why are we arguing about waxing chains?
The question was about rotating wet lubricated chains.

Using waxed chains is possible for longer rides and multi-day rides. Chain waxing works well on my "posh" bike. And if I was doing multi-day rides in crummy weather on it, I'd throw microfibre cloth and some drip wax into my bag. If I was doing a 600km Audax, I'd use an endurance wax or an "endurance chip". If I was doing 1200km Audax, I'd carry a spare freshly waxed chain. Or I'd use my other bike which I'm wet lubing. It's not a big deal, is it?

And the expense of replacing worn out bits of drive train back in the day was enough for me to switch from using a geared bike to a pair of fixed gear bikes. Granted, I was doing more miles then, than I am now. Back then if the weather wasn't crummy, I didn't have a choice. I was still going out.

Now that I'm using gears, I just simply want to try, if possible, to extend the life of the components - on the bike I'm wet lubing - because I'm going to be using it in all the weathers. I may switch to fixed again in future, who knows.

It's horses for courses. We haven't got to all do the same thing. Just because you don't see a point in it doesn't mean there's a problem if someone else does.
 
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fossyant

Ride It Like You Stole It!
Location
South Manchester
So, back to basics, the idea is to save money on drive chain wear and stay cleaner; the downside is original expenditure and a fair bit of fathing about, I ride four different bikes, all with different lengths or thickness chains; you could say I rotate my bikes.

Only 4.. TBH 3 of my five haven't moved in a year. Two road bikes... use the CX bike most of the time to mix it up. FS MTB - that's for proper off road, and does have the chain rotation as the cassette and chain rings are spendy - not used it in 12 months.

The commuter just get's the large ring, cassette and chain replaced every year - it also has spare winter spike tyre wheels - the cassette/chain interface is fine on the spare wheels as I enter 10-12 commuting months on the chain before it get's changed in spring.

The other bike, the CX, just get's a deep clean after a big ride, otherwise it's running gravel wheels in summer, and road tyres and guards in winter.
 
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PedallingNowhereSlowly

PedallingNowhereSlowly

Senior Member
On the expenditure front, it's not necessarily any more expensive in the long run. You'd buy a new chain when one wears out. In theory, the chains last longer so you wind up, in theory, buying fewer chains.

I'm not going to bother rotating chains on the other four bikes because it doesn't make sense. MTB is not used all that much. Folder is not used all that much. Not that much point with the fixed gear. And the other, which is used a lot, has a belt drive.

Just the two expensive bikes which are both regularly used.

Again, horses, courses and all that.
 

screenman

Squire
Only 4.. TBH 3 of my five haven't moved in a year. Two road bikes... use the CX bike most of the time to mix it up. FS MTB - that's for proper off road, and does have the chain rotation as the cassette and chain rings are spendy - not used it in 12 months.

The commuter just get's the large ring, cassette and chain replaced every year - it also has spare winter spike tyre wheels - the cassette/chain interface is fine on the spare wheels as I enter 10-12 commuting months on the chain before it get's changed in spring.

The other bike, the CX, just get's a deep clean after a big ride, otherwise it's running gravel wheels in summer, and road tyres and guards in winter.

I said four that I ride; of course, I did not include the turbo bike. I have slimmed down from the fourteen I used to own. When I leave this life, I do not want to leave a lot of work for someone to clear up, so I am slowly decluttering my life.
 

silva

Über Member
Location
Belgium
1) wearing chain link parts increase tolerances, allowing chain links to be pulled more away from eachother.
2) upon engaging, the rollers then wear out faster the trailing edges of the chainring teeth, making these look like shark fins.
3) upon disenganging, the rollers have to climb over the hooks, wearing out the teeth also from the created 'under'side, aggravating the shark fin profile. Until the hook is weakened enough to break it off.

The idea behind rotating chains is that a new chain causes minimal further sprocket wear since the teeth material that gradually (during new chain links wearing) would have gotten "in the way" has already been removed by the previous chain.

At some point, a chain just breaks off the remainder of the sprocket teeth / skips over,
The key to keep the sprockets in use is to replace the chain before they weakened that much.

The major wear share origins from the sharkfin shape.
Solution is to flip sprockets if possible, and if not, use a file to remove the hook that the rollers have to overcome to disengage.

With these doings you end up with sprockets that allow a next new chain to complete its entire wearing life (max lengh) with minimal further sprockets wear.
The remaining wear that then takes place is in the middle of the wide valleys between the teeth, downwards towards the center of the sprockets.
This decreases the distance that the chain rotates over, so you lose a part of your tensioners or derailers range, the new chain position starts further, which in turn forces replacement with less worn chain.

That chain could be used further with later replaced sprockets, from the moment that the teeth edges got worn away, and the downwards/to center wear starts. If you don't want to bother, gain of not replacing sprockets will come at a cost of more chains.

Such a regime I used for the front ring since that is the one with the most available material to wear off / distributed more.
The win is a chainring that was mounted early 2019, still is in service, and has withstanded 5 replacement chains.
One teeth broke off likely due to my frame failure (connection bottom bracket - drive side rear wheel broke > half cross section) that caused the chain to pull more sideways / chainline off.

Since a rings price (60) is 3 times the chain price (20), it saved quite some bucks.
In 2021 I bought a stock chainrings but didn't need any of them so far, because I didn't know at the time that the teeth edges nearly cease to wear and instead the valleys wear deeper - from low u to high U.
The Velosolo rings are 4 mm thick, so the "deeper", the closer to that 4 mm, and thus, more surface to spread wear over = less further depth wear.

Replacing chain every 200 or 300 km, for one that does everyday 50 that's like every week, is that worth the hassle?
I'd say file off the hooks, it's a minute work, nothing has to be dismounted.
 
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