Chain Rotation

[wafter]

So basically to save a few pennies, out of interest how much per hundred miles would all this effort save?

As has been covered many times on here waxing has many benefits besides just cost, while the time / effort spent is arguably no greater than running conventional lubrication when you factor in the cleaning process and increased frequency of necessary component replacement.

Of course cost savings depend on the drivetrains in question and could be significant considering how fast some can wear / how much parts cost (consider 1x MTB setups, for example).

Presumably you prefer to spend zero effort maintaining your possessions, choosing instead just to run them into the ground then junk them en-bloc because maintaining anything is beneath you and anyone who takes the time to care for their equipment must surely be an idiot..?

 

[Ming the Merciless]

while the time / effort spent is arguably no greater than running conventional lubrication

The above comments would indicate otherwise. Plenty more time and effort involved. No evidence presented that drive trains are lasting longer.

 

[wafter]

The above comments would indicate otherwise. Plenty more time and effort involved. No evidence presented that drive trains are lasting longer.

Plenty of evidence that waxed chains last longer (Zero Friction cycling providing the most comprehensive data).

I've not seen any quantitative evidence for rotation but the theory is sound, while it makes waxing easier so has no drawbacks other than the cost of additional chains in the short term.

 

[Mr Celine]

I suspect the reason the chain waxers and rotators report less wear is that having spent so much time on this they have less time available to ride their bikes and actually cause any wear.
😉

 

[Ming the Merciless]

Plenty of evidence that waxed chains last longer (Zero Friction cycling providing the most comprehensive data).

I've not seen any quantitative evidence for rotation but the theory is sound, while it makes waxing easier so has no drawbacks other than the cost of additional chains in the short term.

Conflict of interest and are there any real world results from someone who hasn’t got something to sell?

Plus their cost per 10,000km for the wax is far higher than I’m spending on my chains, cassettes etc. I can assure you I’m nowhere near spending the equivalent of $4,800 for every 10,000km of drive train use. I’m not even paying the $255 of their best wax extrapolation.

If their results don’t come close to the real world experience of oil based lubrication then something is whiffy.

Plus we know wax is a lot more time / effort just from what posters have said above.

 

[wafter]

Conflict of interest and are there any real world results from someone who hasn’t got something to sell?

Plus their cost per 10,000km for the wax is far higher than I’m spending on my chains, cassettes etc. I can assure you I’m nowhere near spending the equivalent of $4,800 for every 10,000km of drive train use. I’m not even paying the $255 of their best wax extrapolation.

If their results don’t come close to the real world experience of oil based lubes then something is whiffy.

Their testing encompasses many wax products, not just those they're connected with. ZFC are just one example chosen for their comprehensive results and transparant testing procedure; there are many, many other sources suggesting similar results with wax.

Propriatory waxes are expensive just like "high end" oil-based lubes; basic paraffin wax with some powdered moly isn't and appears to give comparable (if perhaps not quite as good) results.

Why should wax come close to the results of oil? Wax is clean, dry and keeps abrasive contamination out of the bearing surfaces of the chain. Oil collects contamination and draws it into the chain - hence the grey sludge present on oiled chains after a few hundred miles of use while waxed chains remain spotless by comparison.

 

[Sea of vapours]

Conflict of interest and are there any real world results from someone who hasn’t got something to sell?

A single datum, but the first waxed chain I retired had lasted 15,000km, including a northern British winter, to a wear point of a little under 0.5% (11 speed).

Plus we know wax is a lot more time / effort just from what posters have said above.

No we don't (know)! It takes a lot of words to describe the waxing process but not many minutes to do it, and it's rather dependent on how clean you wish your bike(s) to be. I keep mine pretty clean, and as a result of the vastly reduced time that takes with waxed chains, since there's no oil on the frame, etc., I am entirely certain that, for me, the time spent on overall 'bike care' is considerably less. This is using immersive waxing, where the actual time spent removing a chain, waxing it and replacing it is less than five minutes (measured) over an elapsed time of a couple of hours (most of that is the wax melting). That five minutes certainly *is* longer than when I used to just wipe and lube the chain, but not by much, and the reduction in 'general cleaning of the bike' time is way more than that difference.

Whilst I do believe that immersive waxing works out cheaper in the (very) long run, I don't much care since, personally, I most definitely find it saves me time and keeps everything just cleaner and nicer.

 

[wafter]

A single datum, but the first waxed chain I retired had lasted 15,000km, including a northern British winter, to a wear point of a little under 0.5% (11 speed).

No we don't (know)! It takes a lot of words to describe the waxing process but not many minutes to do it, and it's rather dependent on how clean you wish your bike(s) to be. I keep mine pretty clean, and as a result of the vastly reduced time that takes with waxed chains, since there's no oil on the frame, etc., I am entirely certain that, for me, the time spent on overall 'bike care' is considerably less. This is using immersive waxing, where the actual time spent removing a chain, waxing it and replacing it is less than five minutes (measured) over an elapsed time of a couple of hours (most of that is the wax melting). That five minutes certainly *is* longer than when I used to just wipe and lube the chain, but not by much, and the reduction in 'general cleaning of the bike' time is way more than that difference.

Whilst I do believe that immersive waxing works out cheaper in the (very) long run, I don't much care since, personally, I most definitely find it saves me time and keeps everything just cleaner and nicer.

Yup.. the cleanliness is a big sell. It's nice not to have to worry about having the occasional pair of trouser ruined by oil, or the process of washing the bike requiring degreaser and ending up with the brush dragging black sludge all over the parts adjacent to the drivetrain.

I couldn't really give a toss how others choose to maintain their gear. However, amongst a group who indulge in what many would consider a niche and non-conformist sport / mode of transport that's often treated with hostility and derision, it's sad to see that there are a few who choose to treat their fellow cyclists with the same hostility and derision for daring to do something differently to the majority of others.

 

[C R]

Yup.. the cleanliness is a big sell. It's nice not to have to worry about having the occasional pair of trouser ruined by oil, or the process of washing the bike requiring degreaser and ending up with the brush dragging black sludge all over the parts adjacent to the drivetrain.

I couldn't really give a toss how others choose to maintain their gear. However, amongst a group who indulge in what many would consider a niche and non-conformist sport / mode of transport that's often treated with hostility and derision, it's sad to see that there are a few who choose to treat their fellow cyclists with the same hostility and derision for daring to do something differently to the majority of others.

If you are having to clean oil off the frame you are putting too much oil on the chain.

 

[presta]

Plenty of evidence that waxed chains last longer (Zero Friction cycling providing the most comprehensive data).

It's a thread about rotating chains, not waxing them.

 

[Drago]

Chris Rea uses chain wax to wax his bikini line.

 

[wafter]

If you are having to clean oil off the frame you are putting too much oil on the chain.

Perhaps, although I've never known an oiled chain not end up depositing some amount of oil on the outside of the chain / associated bits of drivetrain.

It's a thread about rotating chains, not waxing them.

True, although the context of the OP is that this is being done while waxing chains; while it arguably has more value relative to this lubrication method than oil.

 

[PedallingNowhereSlowly]

Wow, this blew up a bit.

I use an iso 100 viscosity oil and that will last 2,000km or so if there isn’t prolonged heavy rain during outings. Rotating chains every week would be a pain in the arse.

I ride 70 to 80k a week on the 'posh' bike so changing chains is every 3 or 4 weeks. And it's no big deal - especially when waxed as there's no degreasing involved.

But I wasn't asking in the context of waxed chains. I was asking in the context of wet lubricated chains.

I would like to ask the OP what they hope to achieve by rotating chains?

Longer component life. As mentioned, chains become elongated and the wear on sprocket and chainring teeth increases. By rotating the chains, are you reducing the rate that at which the chains elongate and thus reducing the wear on the chain rings and the cassettes.

Chains are cheaper than cassettes and chain rings.

And I started this thread with a view to getting an some informed opinion on how frequently chains should be rotated when not dictated by the effective life of wax lubricant.

 

[PedallingNowhereSlowly]

If you are having to clean oil off the frame you are putting too much oil on the chain.

Except that's not really true.

The key when lubing of course is to get it into the rollers (the bushings and pins) and not all over the outside of the chain. But, over time, the centrifugal force of the rotating chain will drive some of that lubricant out. So a small amount does end up getting deposited over the bike.

And in any case, when doing simple maintenance tasks, or handling bikes a simple lapse in concentration means oil on your hands or on your trousers.

It really is nice not to worry about that when dealing with a waxed chain.

 

[fossyant]

Who'd have thought oiling chain causes so much fuss.