"Brompton profits plunge more than 99% amid bike industry turmoil"

[rogerzilla]

That sounds like one of those useless eBay AI descriptions! Especially galling for a used item, where what really matters is its condition.

 

[wafter]

That sounds like one of those useless eBay AI descriptions! Especially galling for a used item, where what really matters is its condition.

Yeah; interesting how they all follow the same easily-recognisable format. I'm surprised it doesn't tout it as "elevating my style" and being "suitable for all occasions". I agree it's particularly infuriating relative to used stuff - typically conveying no useful information and often containing inaccuracies and outright lies. IMO it's an insult to any shred of intelligence the buyer might have and I avoid sellers using AI in their listings..

 

[biggs682]

Whilst we are talking about Rolex watches I use to have a friend who was a long haul flight attendant and always bought half a dozen fake Rolex watches back every trip and claimed they were as good as the original item , strange how she often gave me another one and would take the faulty ones away and get them replaced on the next trip .

She used to drive a yellow MR2 bless her

 

[SpokeyDokey]

I’m have to take issue with that statement, you may not personally like the brand but they are not of questionable value. I’ve owned a Rolex GMT since 1996 and it’s definitely not of questionable value, it has never let me down and still looks and performs the same as the day I first bought it. I also own a 1965 Air King and that again is in astonishing condition for a 60 year old wrist watch, Rolex are a high quality product made to last, and although far from perfect Brompton has the same sort of design integrity, they are designed to a specific job and they do that exceptionally well.

I wish I had kept my 1999 GMT looking at the used prices!

I returned mine after 2 failed attempts to get the 8 & 22 centred properly on the date wheel and 1 failed attempt to get a peak or a trough on the grip part of the bezel lined up with the main bezel.

I returned it and got the full price for it against a Breitling. Even though I had the supplying shop (in Preston, can't remember their name) 'knock off' the unattractive to me, cyclops magnifying lense.

Great service though.

Gorgeous watch otherwise although I grew tired of heavy SS and eventually went down the titanium route.

***

Apologies to all Bromptonites or Bromptoneers for the digression.
 

 

[MidnightRider]

Brompton have spent a lot on developing a new model

To be fair, I have not seen the new model, though it sounds of interest. However I am assuming a lot of it is based on the 16" design (even if resized). Because they do thier own manufacture and build I am a bit puzzled how the new design can have been very expensive to develop, as they already have a lot of patents, skilled workers, tools/machinery in place and suchlike. Its not quite the same as starting from scratch. I can see building up a significant warehouse stock pre release is an investment, but again they build in house and when I last looked at buying a Brompton some years before Covid, there was an order and wait period.

The powers that be at head office blew planning, assuming the Covid boom would last forever.

I agree it was rubbish business gambling. I have no time at all for people who believed Covid would cause major changes for everyone long term. Its a silly basis to take financial gambles on, historically with plagues etc people once no longer feeling threatened have just gone back to thier normal lives. Such behaviour also happens with frequent flooding - see Tewkesbury and similar, despite the lack of sense people still buy houses there. Most large scale contagious illnesses have minimal long term impact unless huge percentages of the population die. If that had become the case with Covid, say a 50% death rate, there would not be enough purchasers left anyway and would they be thinking 'must get a new bike'?
(I am not being flippant about the number of people who did die - 2 of my family did - I am looking at it from a business investment point)

I take my 20" wheeled folder on trains, the tube, buses, etc, with no issues.

Do you get requests to cover your bike in some way? I have looked into bikes for such use and in train / bus rules it often says (a) anything above 16" not allowed at all, or (b) any non Brompton has to have a cover to be allowed onboard (I guess the oily bits are not hidden in some folds).

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

To be fair, I have not seen the new model, though it sounds of interest. However I am assuming a lot of it is based on the 16" design (even if resized). Because they do thier own manufacture and build I am a bit puzzled how the new design can have been very expensive to develop, as they already have a lot of patents, skilled workers, tools/machinery in place and suchlike. Its not quite the same as starting from scratch. I can see building up a significant warehouse stock pre release is an investment, but again they build in house and when I last looked at buying a Brompton some years before Covid, there was an order and wait period.


I agree it was rubbish business gambling. I have no time at all for people who believed Covid would cause major changes for everyone long term. Its a silly basis to take financial gambles on, historically with plagues etc people once no longer feeling threatened have just gone back to thier normal lives. Such behaviour also happens with frequent flooding - see Tewkesbury and similar, despite the lack of sense people still buy houses there. Most large scale contagious illnesses have minimal long term impact unless huge percentages of the population die. If that had become the case with Covid, say a 50% death rate, there would not be enough purchasers left anyway and would they be thinking 'must get a new bike'?
(I am not being flippant about the number of people who did die - 2 of my family did - I am looking at it from a business investment point)

Do you get requests to cover your bike in some way? I have looked into bikes for such use and in train / bus rules it often says (a) anything above 16" not allowed at all, or (b) any non Brompton has to have a cover to be allowed onboard (I guess the oily bits are not hidden in some folds).

Last time I looked a bike was "just luggage" and always allowed once it was folded
Has this changed?
and is this for all companies/service/lines??

Thanks

 

[MidnightRider]

I have been mildly interested in a Brompton for many years, or a similar small fold for handiness at times, as its not something I 'need'. I have never managed to commit as generally the lower end folders seem not all that well built, with poor adjustability with handlebars etc. However I have never managed to face forking out for a Brompton as some aspects it could be better engineered plus it takes so few standard components which is a total pain.

Brompton cost is an issue and has been for years. £800 plus for a 3 speed at the time I first started considering them, when I could buy a well built, standard components, 18 geared Kona non fold for £350 at the time in a sale - its was taking the proverbial. Its just got worse with pricing now, £1000 plus for a 3 speed with none to minimal improvements over the years I have been looking and continuing disproportionate pricing additions for more speeds, extra accessories etc.

I fear though that in recent years most bike companies and manufactures have taken to totally taking the proverbial as they sought to rip off people during Covid and rubbing their hands with glee as they thought they could continue to do so indefinitely. I have written on here before of some bike shop experiences I have had in the last year or 2 which included a Giant brand shop telling me there was not point at all in buying any kind of drop bar bike for less than £8000 (not £800!) despite my not being competitive in riding and saying I was looking for something for 30/40 mile local day trips. This sort of idiot sales technique and greed and they expect continued customer loyalty? Moving bikes into elite/snob based purchase categories where normal income people will just go upgrade their car at that price, and the kids will go without bikes at all, never to become part of the cycling community even for fun.

I find the present high pitched whine of all brands of bike manufacturers and component makers quite amusing and very well deserved. I cannot bring myself to care they got caught out by greed, we the very same people they were more than happy to take for a ride in more ways than one. There was so much fear , death and distress in the world during Covid and all they could see were profiteering opportunities.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

I have been mildly interested in a Brompton for many years, or a similar small fold for handiness at times, as its not something I 'need'. I have never managed to commit as generally the lower end folders seem not all that well built, with poor adjustability with handlebars etc. However I have never managed to face forking out for a Brompton as some aspects it could be better engineered plus it takes so few standard components which is a total pain.

Brompton cost is an issue and has been for years. £800 plus for a 3 speed at the time I first started considering them, when I could buy a well built, standard components, 18 geared Kona non fold for £350 at the time in a sale - its was taking the proverbial. Its just got worse with pricing now, £1000 plus for a 3 speed with none to minimal improvements over the years I have been looking and continuing disproportionate pricing additions for more speeds, extra accessories etc.

I fear though that in recent years most bike companies and manufactures have taken to totally taking the proverbial as they sought to rip off people during Covid and rubbing their hands with glee as they thought they could continue to do so indefinitely. I have written on here before of some bike shop experiences I have had in the last year or 2 which included a Giant brand shop telling me there was not point at all in buying any kind of drop bar bike for less than £8000 (not £800!) despite my not being competitive in riding and saying I was looking for something for 30/40 mile local day trips. This sort of idiot sales technique and greed and they expect continued customer loyalty? Moving bikes into elite/snob based purchase categories where normal income people will just go upgrade their car at that price, and the kids will go without bikes at all, never to become part of the cycling community even for fun.

I find the present high pitched whine of all brands of bike manufacturers and component makers quite amusing and very well deserved. I cannot bring myself to care they got caught out by greed, we the very same people they were more than happy to take for a ride in more ways than one. There was so much fear , death and distress in the world during Covid and all they could see were profiteering opportunities.

My LBS seem quite realistic - they have stopped selling low priced normal bikes and just have "proper" mountain bikes and ebikes on display

They can get and advise on high quality road bikes but the market is just not there locally so they concentrate on what they can sell
They try to miss out the bottom proce ranges as they know Halfords will get 90% of those sales
and they concentrate on the mid range

The can get other makes and differnet models and will happily order them in if someone wants them - even if they just want to try them out.
I have seen a few higher end bikes and ebike in there that they ordered for someone just to try it out
They sell them eventually

They are also quite happy to service and repair anything from anywhere - in fact they seem quite keep on tackling weird things - that happended when I had a PowaCycle ebike - they had never seen one before (this was many years ago) and were happy to fiddle with it and try things out
they did bugger it up and apologised, contact Powacycle and fixed it themselves

I did try a different LBS at one point and they were snobby and didn't want to look at anything that was beneath them - they are close now

 

[MidnightRider]

Last time I looked a bike was "just luggage" and always allowed once it was folded
Has this changed?
and is this for all companies/service/lines??

Thanks

I was looking for some time before Covid and I had been hoping to cycle out and get a 'lift' back at times. However I was careful to look at the regs at that time period and localish to me, as I did not want to find I could not come home easily at the end of a longer ride.

I found some transport was keen to take only Bromptons, to the point where I began to wonder if Brompton was sponsoring this position to eliminate competitors as they were somewhere (cant remember which service) specifically mentioned as the only acceptable folder. This was as I said some time back, several years, so sorry I cannot remember the details. Requiring bikes to have some kind of cover placed on them was more common, I presume to keep oil off seats and other passengers as folding bikes were more likely to be taken to passenger areas rather than left on bike racks near doors etc. I think (could well be wrong on this) that the Brompton has a good fold for keeping chain etc enclosed within the folded bike and most other brands don't.

All this of course is based on the transport company believing bikes hover above ground when ridden and never touch mud or dirty water! :-)

Loads of rules may have been updated or just are ignored most of the time since I last looked. All the train companies, buses etc will have bike regulations mentioned on thier websites (they all vary) and sometimes leaflets are found about bikes on the leaflet stands of train stations.

All the best!

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

I was looking for some time before Covid and I had been hoping to cycle out and get a 'lift' back at times. However I was careful to look at the regs at that time period and localish to me, as I did not want to find I could not come home easily at the end of a longer ride.

I found some transport was keen to take only Bromptons, to the point where I began to wonder if Brompton was sponsoring this position to eliminate competitors as they were somewhere (cant remember which service) specifically mentioned as the only acceptable folder. This was as I said some time back, several years, so sorry I cannot remember the details. Requiring bikes to have some kind of cover placed on them was more common, I presume to keep oil off seats and other passengers as folding bikes were more likely to be taken to passenger areas rather than left on bike racks near doors etc. I think (could well be wrong on this) that the Brompton has a good fold for keeping chain etc enclosed within the folded bike and most other brands don't.

All this of course is based on the transport company believing bikes hover above ground when ridden and never touch mud or dirty water! :-)

Loads of rules may have been updated or just are ignored most of the time since I last looked. All the train companies, buses etc will have bike regulations mentioned on thier websites (they all vary) and sometimes leaflets are found about bikes on the leaflet stands of train stations.

All the best!

I have not come across the "Brommie only" type regulations
but I have been put off taking either of my bikes on train (folder and non folder) as the regulation seen weak and not enforced except when you are the person with the bike
For example, people complaining that they book a ticket for a bike - but are not allowed on the train because people have stacked luggae up in the bike area
and then I don;t know what happens because nowadays a lot of tickets are for specific trains

so plans I have had to ride out then come back on the train have always been shelved

 

[MidnightRider]

I did try a different LBS at one point and they were snobby and didn't want to look at anything that was beneath them - they are close now

If I am away from home I like to discover new bike shops and often buy oddments and on rare occasion an unexpected bike purchase. The tone varies hugely between shops but also between locations. Many of the bike shops in or around Bristol are up themselves and very snobby. All of the bike shops I visited in Cheltenham this year (Williams, Decathlon, Leisure Lakes and a very friendly smaller shop I cant recall the name of) were all very open, friendly and helpful. Can't recommend Chetenhams bike shops highly enough. The bike shops of Leamington Spa also visited this year seemed very helpful and friendly.

I and a couple of other people I knew about 10 years back blacklisted Mud Dock bike shop in Bristol as they were so rude, ignoring people at the desk while the staff chatted and similar, plus a very 'you are either in or out with us' sort of vibe. No idea what they are like now, but hopefully changed hands. They were always heavily promoted as a shop & cafe by the cycling magazine publishers based in Bath (Future Publications?) so I guess the mag staff were 'in'

 

[Punkawallah]

If you spend too much money and don’t sell enough products your business doesn’t last very long, doesn’t matter how strong your brand is. They should have fixed the roof when the sun was shining.

Oh yes.

 

[Punkawallah]

Lucky double-barrelled Billy isn't a footie manager, we all know what happens to them when the score sheet looks dismal.

I too would be sad to see them go under, but the threat from the far east can be hard to ignore, or compete with.

Unless the government is prepared to provide subsidies ass they do in China and Europe.

 

[MidnightRider]

For example, people complaining that they book a ticket for a bike - but are not allowed on the train because people have stacked luggage up in the bike area
and then I don;t know what happens because nowadays a lot of tickets are for specific trains so plans I have had to ride out then come back on the train have always been shelved

Yeh, in the end I gave up on that too, before I even started, the reason I dont know the present regulations. A workmate had to go home to London every weekend with his bike on the train and he often ran into issues despite having booked. Again, this was maybe 10 years back. No idea how it is now.

What finished it for me though was the lack of security. In the regs my local train services say you are not allowed to lock up bikes when they are on the train (so staff can move them I suppose), but the bike racks are next to the carriage doors and from travelling 'bike free' I knew how often such racks would not be visible from parts of the carriage seating. Then I saw a couple of stories on forums about people just going into carriages at stations and unhooking bikes and walking off with them, looking as if they were legitimate passengers disembarking with a bike they had travelled with. No idea where insurance would stand if you had left a bike unlocked and you could not see it from your allocated seat, apart from the loss and hassle.

Its why I had first started way back looking at Bromptons, as they were designed originally to slide between train seats, so no locks and always in sight. I just wish they were more reasonably priced in comparison to better spec'd bikes. I don't commute or require a folder but would have liked one for occasional usefulness/fun. At this point I can't see myself ever paying their prices, shame as the new 20" sounds of interest.

 

[MidnightRider]

Unless the government is prepared to provide subsidies ass they do in China and Europe.

Thanks for that info, I did not know this was done.

Well as a taxpayer I would not be happy to fund Brompton. I think Brompton got too full of themselves and ambitious. The plan for the huge new showcase factory, self designed and built as a flagship green move always seemed a bit dodgy to me. Plus the expensive of something so specific rather than just renting or buying a standard build warehouse seemed to indicate they had more money/ego than sense. It was not in a similar category to an unusual hotel that people would pay to stay in. When I buy a bike, do I care about the factory as long as there is no negative publicity about how staff are treated - er, no.

I seem to remember they were going to have a rule that no cars could park on site, so it looked likely that employees forced to commute by the factory being moved would be forced to park in residential streets several miles away as the only available option and then bike a few extra miles through the wind and rain to the new factory - inconveniencing local residents, who had started objecting to the plans. It looked to me like false ego-fullfilling 'greenness' as the transport problems would be the same, but the image of Brompton could be falsely polished by pushing the problem on to residents a few miles away and leaving staff to have to be fit enough to ride even in adverse weather. I wonder if they would be getting free bikes or would have been required to pay for them?

Note that Brompton may have upgraded their plans since I last saw an article on the proposed factory build, I have not been following the design/build developments.