I’d agree with this, the cycle parts resemble a 1970’s Raleigh Chopper.
"Brompton profits plunge more than 99% amid bike industry turmoil"
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I’d agree with this, the cycle parts resemble a 1970’s Raleigh Chopper.
lol - true; which of course is fine when it works (personally I quite like the quirky gearing and think it generally does the job well). Some of the other bits not so much, however..
Latest irritant is the bolt on the rear of the mudguard rubbing against the tyre on my old M3L, the mudguard stays bend with use causing the mudguard to foul the wheel, just a crap design.
Yup - that sounds familiar!
FrankCrank
Old layabout
Just wondering, does anyone of this parish own or have experience of the Brommie clones?
The number of different badged types out this way must be into double figures by now.
Saw one (LitePro) on a recent trip over to the Mekong, and it looked real nice, but the owner was not to be seen so unable to get their opinion. Lots of the clones in Singapore, going by the various online reviews I've seen, certainly seems like the epicentre.
I might be tempted to dabble with a clone myself, but only if I'm convinced I'd make valid use of it, rather than having a little used curio.
I own a lot of 20" wheeled bikes, and know the limitations of smaller wheels, so dropping to 16" wheels makes me a bit dubious and wary.
The number of different badged types out this way must be into double figures by now.
Saw one (LitePro) on a recent trip over to the Mekong, and it looked real nice, but the owner was not to be seen so unable to get their opinion. Lots of the clones in Singapore, going by the various online reviews I've seen, certainly seems like the epicentre.
I might be tempted to dabble with a clone myself, but only if I'm convinced I'd make valid use of it, rather than having a little used curio.
I own a lot of 20" wheeled bikes, and know the limitations of smaller wheels, so dropping to 16" wheels makes me a bit dubious and wary.
Last summer I was looking to buy a new folding bike that would fit in my small car. I looked at Brompton and Dahon and I bought a Dahon Mariner at less than half the price of a Brompton. It doesn't fold as small as a Brompton but I do not take it on trains or buses. The Dahon is fitted with parts that are widely available as oppose to Brompton. I think Brompton have priced themselves out of reach of most cyclsts.They are the Rolex of folders whereas Dahon is Seiko
Drago
Legendary Member
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- Suburban Poshshire
I take my 20" wheeled folder on trains, the tube, buses, etc, with no issues. Been as far sarf as Dungeness and as far north as Edinburgh with it, no hassles. Even taken it on the Romney, Hythe and Dymchurch light railway.
It's not as compact when folded, but not to the extent it's proven troublesome, and at 11.6kg actual (ie, what it weighed on my scales and not what some brochure claimed) its a fraction lighter to lug on and off of public transport all the cooking Brompton models, with the benefit of a much better ride.
It's not as compact when folded, but not to the extent it's proven troublesome, and at 11.6kg actual (ie, what it weighed on my scales and not what some brochure claimed) its a fraction lighter to lug on and off of public transport all the cooking Brompton models, with the benefit of a much better ride.
I think the watch analogy is pretty spot on; IMO both Rolex and Brompton rely on a manufactured prestige image to sell products that are inherently of questionable value.
In other news, having looked at the G-line from the perspective of resolving complaints about the original (rather than their marketing shpeil of "it's a gravel bike that folds up") it does make more sense and appeals to a greater extent.
Yes, it's larger but not by as much as the implied difference between "16 inch" and "20 inch" wheels since their BSDs are actually 349mm and 406mm respectively; so the 20" rim is only around 16% larger than the 16" job despite their wonky imperial designations suggesting the difference is more like 25%.
In addition we have nice fat tyres, a (sadly not very efficient, nor wide-of-range it seems) 8sp geared hub and hydro brakes. It seems they've relaxed the geometry a fair bit too; which would be welcome on those half-asleep morning commutes and rougher surfaces. IIRC the frame hinge pin is also a lot less offensive, although it seems they've done nothing to address the issue with grot ingress at the bottom of the seatpost tube, which is pretty bloody poor. In addition it seems they don't offer any options with mudguards as standard (and I suspect those they do offer provide "limited" coverage), while I don't like the ally forks much either.
Perhaps had the G-line been available (for comparable money) when I bought my C-line I might have been swayed; although it does look like a step backwards if an amount of carrying / public storage (on busses in pubs etc) is required.
I wonder if over time some of the advances on the G-line will make their way onto the smaller models..?
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Drago
Legendary Member
- Location
- Suburban Poshshire
That said, Rolex watches are exquisitely made. In a sense it's unjustifiable as a Seiko is merely well made and keeps time just as well. Nevertheless, some folk such as myself are happy to pay for the fine craftsmanship even if it doesn't bring anything tangible to the business of telling the time.
Alas, Brompton don't even have that the fine craftsmanship to fall back upon, being no better constructed or finished than the typical bicycle, and often not even that well. As such the kudos is a result of marketing alone, and that will only ever go so for so long without something substantive to back it up.
Alas, Brompton don't even have that the fine craftsmanship to fall back upon, being no better constructed or finished than the typical bicycle, and often not even that well. As such the kudos is a result of marketing alone, and that will only ever go so for so long without something substantive to back it up.
I’m have to take issue with that statement, you may not personally like the brand but they are not of questionable value. I’ve owned a Rolex GMT since 1996 and it’s definitely not of questionable value, it has never let me down and still looks and performs the same as the day I first bought it. I also own a 1965 Air King and that again is in astonishing condition for a 60 year old wrist watch, Rolex are a high quality product made to last, and although far from perfect Brompton has the same sort of design integrity, they are designed to a specific job and they do that exceptionally well.
ebikeerwidnes
Guru
- Location
- Z’ha’dum
I would agree that a Rolex does seem to have good value
they don;t seem to depreciate much - and some gain in value
some years ago I came into some money (OK OK our syndicate won on the lottery) and I was looking for a watch to buy - so Rolex seems the obvious choice
I could see the value and people who had owned them for long period testified to their quality and how long they lasted
but to me their value was much less as their design concepts were not aimed at people like me - I settled for a much more subtle watch for about 1/5th the price (actually 2 watches!)
which also applies to bromptons - if they are what you want they are great and I presume they are worthe it but cheaper version are around
but they do have the name which means a lot to some people
they don;t seem to depreciate much - and some gain in value
some years ago I came into some money (OK OK our syndicate won on the lottery) and I was looking for a watch to buy - so Rolex seems the obvious choice
I could see the value and people who had owned them for long period testified to their quality and how long they lasted
but to me their value was much less as their design concepts were not aimed at people like me - I settled for a much more subtle watch for about 1/5th the price (actually 2 watches!)
which also applies to bromptons - if they are what you want they are great and I presume they are worthe it but cheaper version are around
but they do have the name which means a lot to some people
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Time Waster
Veteran
funny enough I found my 30 year old casio and put a new battery in it. It works as well as it did 30 years ago and actually tells the time pretty well. Cost £35 back then (I checked but it was a leaving my first job pressie) and it still sold now for the same price. So why get the Rolex or Seiko? I see no value in that personally.
I do however own a Brompton as it folds small, less smaller with the two part telescopic seatpost I need, and it has stopped me getting thrown off the train with the other, full sized bikes when the train wass full of holiday makers returning from Manchester Airport with suitcases that could fit two or three of me in them at once!! It is also the only folding bike that was available for someone my size. I tried to get a tern and dahon, cheaper bikes and possibly better suited to my needs. I went to a folding bike specialist retailer who was a main dealer for brompton. tern, dahon and others. The retailer had a guarantee that if you are not happy with your bike you can take it back for a full refund after quite a long trial time. He asked a few questions about my needs and about me. When he asked about my height and I said 196 cm (6'5") he then reduced the options. I asked about dahon and tern, them being cheaper, He said he would not sell them to me because in his opinion they were not suitable for my height. Apparently back then they both said max user height is 6'4" for all their models. About a 6 months after I got my Brompton I checked the website of one of those other brands and foumd out that one of their models had the max user height changed to 6'6".
Either way too late for me and I am kind of happy with the Brompton. It fits a use I have and mostly works well. My grumbles with it is about how the bolts rusted. I have treated my other rigid bikes worse than I treated this Brompton but they have not had any rusty bolts on them. The other point is the minor surface rust residue that comes out of the frame when folded. The other issue is the plastic plus or minus gear derailleur. It is crap and often stops shifting. It moves when the gear lever is moved but doesn't shift the gear at times. Takes a bit of fettling at home to fix but it is a nuisance on the commmute when it stops working. I have also had issues with the SA hub gear in that it does not always shift from 3 to 2 but it works the other way around. It shifts from 2 to 1, 1 to 2 and 2 to 3 ok just not 3 to 2. I have to manually pull on the indicator chain while flicking the gear selector lever. That is until I can get home and sort it out. All things I think are inadequate designs and would be good to change.
6 speed one I have is an awkward setup that IMHO does not work well at all. You have three widely spaced hub gears that are modified by the +/- gears. IIRC youu kind of have to change between the hub gears the +/- gears to smooth out the gear jumps. Now hub gears change when not pedalling so changing on hills you lose the speed/momentum changing the hubs. You can change it while pedalling in some situations but overall if working the pedals on a hill you do have to stop pedalling. Then you have to pedal to change the +/- gears just like a derailleur gearing. Two different shifting methods. A bit of a daft design. Why can't you simply have one deraileur for changing gears in one method and while still pedalling? Tern and Dahon manage it on their 20" wheels. I think bike friday manage it in their 16" wheeled commuter folder model packit and the R&M Birdy also offer such shifting. Birdy can come with so many different gearing options that it would be good for Brompton to do at least something better than 3 speed hub with a half derailleur shifter.
I think the Brompton brand kind of got stuck in the one model and design. Even the 20" model is just a slight variation on the original. I think Brompton needs to innovate better. It has a good fold and that is all that is really going for it reight now IMHO. Innovate or die I think applies here.
PS I'll continue to use my Brompton for many years. I will live with the failure of design it has. I might save up for a bike friday or Birdy one day. Probably Birdy as it has the best fold of all the Brompton alternatives and has so many gearing and design options it is in another league.
I do however own a Brompton as it folds small, less smaller with the two part telescopic seatpost I need, and it has stopped me getting thrown off the train with the other, full sized bikes when the train wass full of holiday makers returning from Manchester Airport with suitcases that could fit two or three of me in them at once!! It is also the only folding bike that was available for someone my size. I tried to get a tern and dahon, cheaper bikes and possibly better suited to my needs. I went to a folding bike specialist retailer who was a main dealer for brompton. tern, dahon and others. The retailer had a guarantee that if you are not happy with your bike you can take it back for a full refund after quite a long trial time. He asked a few questions about my needs and about me. When he asked about my height and I said 196 cm (6'5") he then reduced the options. I asked about dahon and tern, them being cheaper, He said he would not sell them to me because in his opinion they were not suitable for my height. Apparently back then they both said max user height is 6'4" for all their models. About a 6 months after I got my Brompton I checked the website of one of those other brands and foumd out that one of their models had the max user height changed to 6'6".
Either way too late for me and I am kind of happy with the Brompton. It fits a use I have and mostly works well. My grumbles with it is about how the bolts rusted. I have treated my other rigid bikes worse than I treated this Brompton but they have not had any rusty bolts on them. The other point is the minor surface rust residue that comes out of the frame when folded. The other issue is the plastic plus or minus gear derailleur. It is crap and often stops shifting. It moves when the gear lever is moved but doesn't shift the gear at times. Takes a bit of fettling at home to fix but it is a nuisance on the commmute when it stops working. I have also had issues with the SA hub gear in that it does not always shift from 3 to 2 but it works the other way around. It shifts from 2 to 1, 1 to 2 and 2 to 3 ok just not 3 to 2. I have to manually pull on the indicator chain while flicking the gear selector lever. That is until I can get home and sort it out. All things I think are inadequate designs and would be good to change.
6 speed one I have is an awkward setup that IMHO does not work well at all. You have three widely spaced hub gears that are modified by the +/- gears. IIRC youu kind of have to change between the hub gears the +/- gears to smooth out the gear jumps. Now hub gears change when not pedalling so changing on hills you lose the speed/momentum changing the hubs. You can change it while pedalling in some situations but overall if working the pedals on a hill you do have to stop pedalling. Then you have to pedal to change the +/- gears just like a derailleur gearing. Two different shifting methods. A bit of a daft design. Why can't you simply have one deraileur for changing gears in one method and while still pedalling? Tern and Dahon manage it on their 20" wheels. I think bike friday manage it in their 16" wheeled commuter folder model packit and the R&M Birdy also offer such shifting. Birdy can come with so many different gearing options that it would be good for Brompton to do at least something better than 3 speed hub with a half derailleur shifter.
I think the Brompton brand kind of got stuck in the one model and design. Even the 20" model is just a slight variation on the original. I think Brompton needs to innovate better. It has a good fold and that is all that is really going for it reight now IMHO. Innovate or die I think applies here.
PS I'll continue to use my Brompton for many years. I will live with the failure of design it has. I might save up for a bike friday or Birdy one day. Probably Birdy as it has the best fold of all the Brompton alternatives and has so many gearing and design options it is in another league.
Drago
Legendary Member
- Location
- Suburban Poshshire
I'm 6'4" and 270lbs and simply swamp the Brompton. Horribly unstable compared to the 20 inchers with my mass way up there, and noticeable frame flex. Normal mortals (we sall them "normies") won't suffer as we do.
While I'm towards the upper limit of that which is sensible there are plenty of rivals that can manage me for height and weight ( just for the weight.)
No matter how "good" a dealer is I wouldn't take the word of someone that wasn't dimensionally similar, because they won't really have a clue. They misled you somewhat I'm afraid TW. There are better riding, better finished bikes for less cash that would accommodate you well, and you won't get thrown off a busy train with them either.
While I'm towards the upper limit of that which is sensible there are plenty of rivals that can manage me for height and weight ( just for the weight.)
No matter how "good" a dealer is I wouldn't take the word of someone that wasn't dimensionally similar, because they won't really have a clue. They misled you somewhat I'm afraid TW. There are better riding, better finished bikes for less cash that would accommodate you well, and you won't get thrown off a busy train with them either.
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I have no particularly strong feelings either way about the brand and don't doubt their quality; however in recent years it seems that both new and used prices have rocketed (and apparently collapsed again somewhat) due to people increasingly gaming them as an appreciating investment rather than a timepiece.
This appears to be corroborated by this video (whole channel is worth a watch IMO - bloke is both informative and entertaining). According to said video the price of one particular model / range (I forget which) has increased by many times more than inflation since the '50s - which to me doesn't suggest good value.
It seems these watches command an excessive premium on account of their brand cache, which doesn't reflect cost of manufacture plus a similar margin to other products - hence poor value IMO. In addition I suspect there are other, far cheaper watches that are capable of similar reliability to a Rolex. Finally their currently-still-lofty prices following a bubble wouldn't fill me with confidence if in the market for one currently.
I suspect that given the examples you own have been in your possession for quite some time, they cost proportionally a lot less than their current market value / the new cost of an equivalent - would you consider paying perhaps several times more for the same item now to represent good value?
I like nice things and am happy to pay a premium for better products if I think they'll retain their value; however the cost of many items seems to have been warped by the economic events of the past two decades to the point where a lot of stuff is IMO simply too expensive / objectively not worth the asking price.
In other news it seems that Brompton are now conspicuously using AI to generate their website content; which seem.... amateurish
I assume they couldn't justify the wages of a real human to proof-read this since the last sentence is the only part that actually makes sense - describing it correctly as a replacement standard part necessary when the original fails, rather than an accessory to improve the existing system.
At least this seems limited to their spares and they still appear to have proper people writing the prose for their more substantial products..
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