Bicycle lights at station

[Drago]

Also security can't touch you like that unless they think a crime has been committed so it was all strange.

Utter rubbish. Under common law they have exactly that power to prevent you entering, to prevent you entering certain parts of the premises, or to eject you entirely. If you resist such an ehection in a public place (public being defined by who has access, not who owns it) you commit a breach or the peace, or in this case breach of one of the more specific by laws that apply to railway premises.

If he was genuinely a staff member he can kick you out exactly as he said he could. He doesn't even have to be security - anyone from the station manager to the cleaner has the common law power to use reasonable force to eject you (company policy on who may eject who probably restricts it to security, but the legal power extends to all.)

You're the one verging on committing an offence, and may even have actually done so dependent upon you exact words and actions, because it is, as aforementioned, an offence to behave in a disorderly manner on railway premises.

He told you he was security. If you chose not to take him at his word, or not to engage further with him to establish the veracity of his status, that really your problem, not his - that would be mitigation in court, not a defence. Next time I hope he does try to eject you and you resist, because the magistrate will tear you a new behind.

So the problem started when this "security" staff failed to identify. They need some remedial training.

He did identify, but the OP chose not to believe him.

Id have asked politely to see creds if I was in any doubt, but the OP instead chose instead to just plough on. It seems because the OP sometimes wear jeans and a florrie himself that justifies doing whatever the hell he likes.

And the colour of the OPs light is irrelevant. If there's the tiniest doubt, the slightest hesitation about the nature of the light the driver will brake. There is one instance where a driver was unsure about what turned out to be the lights in the sole of a toddlers trainers and hit the emergency brake.

I'm sorry, but the OP clearly gets his legal knowledge from a cereal box, and by his own description behaved in an arrogant, Ill advised, and potentially even criminal manner. He's right to be worried, because he's going to get himself arrested for the most ridiculous of reasons one of these days.

 

[C R]

He did identify, but the OP chose not to believe him.

It is not clear to me that they did identify themselves properly. Anyone can don a hi vis vest and a say they are security. Without any form of official identification I think it is fair to question the "security" guy's bona fides.

 

[Drago]

It is not clear to me that they did identify themselves properly. Anyone can don a hi vis vest and a say they are security. Without any form of official identification I think it is fair to question the "security" guy's bona fides.

In which case you do actually question his bona fides and say, "may I see your ID please?"

Getting bolshy and threatening to kick off if you dont get your own way is not a reasonable alternative to asking for ID, and the OPs description of his own behaviour put him very close (or maybe even all the way, depending on his wording and exact behaviour) to committing an actual offence.

As it stood the chap had verbally identified himself as security. Further polite scrutiny of that fact is acceptable, even prudent under certain circumstances, but behaving like a nodder is not a reasonable substitute for asking to see ID. The security man had acted completely lawfully, and in response the OP likely committed a criminal offence.

When the OP gets himself locked up, and he will if he carries on like that, I do sincerely hope he defends himself in Court because his understanding of criminal law is beyond hilarious, and while I am splitting my sides he'll find Magistrates don't have a sense of humour.

If I were the OP I'd stay clear of railway premises for at least 6 months to let the offence time out under statute. After that I'd be damn sure to act reasonably and politely and, above all, do as I was bloody well told.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

to see the old dynamo lights

In which case the dynamo is a rim dynamo as the lights are old school dynamo? All rim dynamos had the ability to flick them into a position off the rim, killing the lights. That would have been instant as old dynamo lights did not have a stand light capacitor.

 

[craigwend]

You live and learn and I have today

Some may choose not to...

 

[Dogtrousers]

I always try to remember to switch my lights off before entering a station.

Just make a habit of it and everyone's life is made easier.

I have, on occasion, forgotten. Staff have pointed this out and I have immediately remedied the situation.

I'd be pretty sure that your lights can be switched off somehow. You should figure this out before taking your bike onto a station again.

 

[Dogtrousers]

. The bike is a dynamo light so cannot be switched off but goes off once the bike stops moving.

I don't have any red lights on the bike.

So you have dynamo lighting that won't switch off ... but no red (rear) light.
And it goes off when the bike stops, so no standlight.

Sounds like you have completely useless lights. Fix them, or get someone who knows what they are doing to fix them.

 

[matticus]

I have no citation, but I've heard a few times that RED lights are a safety issue. This seems sensible to me. I don't believe white lights are a problem; there are many white lights at a station - they are installed so people can see where they are going.
A station official did once admonish me for my front (dyno) light - I politely replied that only red rear lights are an issue, and he sulked off.

IANAL. (or a policeman!)

 

[winjim]

If an unidentified someone shouted at me from a distance to turn my lights off, as described by the OP, I would ignore them. If an identifiable member of staff asked me politely and explained why, I would turn them off immediately.

I don't know how reliable the OP's narrative is but from their account it sounds as if both parties were getting a bit bolshy.

 

[Dogtrousers]

A station official did once admonish me for my front (dyno) light - I politely replied that only red rear lights are an issue, and he sulked off.

Did you not have a rear fitted? Or was the your rear battery powered? (I can see why, as dangly cables the length of the bike if you have a front dynohub are a bit bleh).

Either way, surely the easiest thing to do would be to switch it off, not argue your "rights".

Or are these un-switch-offable dynamos actually common? I've owned dynamos of various sorts and they all had off switches of one sort or another.

 

[Dogtrousers]

If an unidentified someone shouted at me from a distance to turn my lights off, as described by the OP, I would ignore them.

Depends where I was. If I was on a station then I'd turn them off, regardless of who it was. Could be a member of staff, could be a passer by reminding me that I had forgotten to switch them off.

A bit like if I forget to turn my car headlights on, and someone flashes me to remind me of the fact. I don't ignore them unless they happen to be police officers.

Incidentally exactly this happened to me at Sevenoaks station earlier this year, Jan or Feb, at the ticket barrier. The guy asked me to turn my lights off. I remember because I was a bit abashed because I normally remember to turn them off. Naturally I replied "Why don't you try and make me then? I know my rights!" (No I didn't. I just switched them off like any normal person would do).

 

[matticus]

Did you not have a rear fitted? Or was the your rear battery powered? (I can see why, as dangly cables the length of the bike if you have a front dynohub are a bit bleh).

Either way, surely the easiest thing to do would be to switch it off, not argue your "rights".

Or are these un-switch-offable dynamos actually common? I've owned dynamos of various sorts and they all had off switches.

Yes, I only have battery-powered rears. I always turn them off when I enter a station.

It was - as evidenced by real events - a lot quicker to explain my understanding of the rules than to fiddle with my lights*. I did not "argue my 'rights' ", I simply stated my understanding of the rules. I've been alive long enough to know that jobsworths exist, and they invent rules for their own amusement (or simply misunderstand rules, due to stupidity or poor training).

*I would wager that many dynamo users don't know how to turn them off. The biggest benefit of dyno-lights is that they're always on!!!

 

[matticus]

A bit like if I forget to turn my car headlights on, and someone flashes me to remind me of the fact. I don't ignore them unless they happen to be police officers.

If I shouted at you "turn on your lights, don't you know it's a MONDAY!!!" in broad daylight, would you comply?

 

[Dogtrousers]

If I shouted at you "turn on your lights, don't you know it's a MONDAY!!!" in broad daylight, would you comply?

Of course not. What a strange question.

And similarly if you said "You've left your bike lights on" to me and I wasn't in a station I'd ignore you.

Oddly enough, when I was out riding on Saturday a cyclist who overtook me saw fit to tell me that my rear light was on. Quite what business of his it was, I don't know. I told him that I was well aware of the fact.

 

[matticus]

And similarly if you said "You've left your bike lights on" to me and I wasn't in a station I'd ignore you.

Why?