Armstrong charged and banned

[raindog]

4. Christophe Moreau (‘98 busted for EPO)​

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Moreau ​

 

[BJH]

Well the feel good glow for cycling following the Lympics will now well and truly disappear. It will be back to business as usual in the press as cyclists are re-crowned public enemy No. 1. I guess the yanks decided to make as much noise about this as they could as they are not doing very well in cycling at the mo. Strange they were more than happy to lap it up when Lance was winning - seven tours he won. The Yanks though know a thing or two about stepping outside the law and witch hunts.

I wouldn't criticise the US on this one. Reality is that one of their sporting icons has been caught and exposed as a cheat. I applaud their efforts in getting on with it, you surely can't be suggesting that they have only done this now because they don't have as much success at the moment.
For USADA to go ahead with this is a brave decision on their part, it would have been the easiest decision in the world to let this go and accept the arguments about what good it will do, how much damage will it do to cycling or the wider area of sport , or even just plain sticking up for the good old boy hero of US sport being attacked by those godamm Frenchies.
He has had his chance to defend himself and chosen not to, everything he says after that is nonsense and clearly aimed at avoiding evidence being aired in public.
The TexMex barbecued chickens have come home to be roasted.

 

[Smokin Joe]

The most positive thing to come out of this will be the knowledge that whatever you take in the way of PEDS that may be undetectable now science will eventually catch up and you'll be nailed it some point in the future.

 

[BJH]

Just had a little check on some Twitter accounts.

Seems like a reluctance to comment from a number of big names in British cycling.

Presumably they are all too busy??

Come on let's hear from you Lord Lanceamort is definitely dead and won't be coming back so you have nothing to fear I can't wait to see who moves first on this one, it's just like the Sun and the Prince Harry pictures all over again !

 

[marinyork]

The most positive thing to come out of this will be the knowledge that whatever you take in the way of PEDS that may be undetectable now science will eventually catch up and you'll be nailed it some point in the future.

Huge numbers of people in US athletics got away with it from the mid 80s to around 2000. A few got caught (although quite a number quite a number of years later). It was one of the reasons why USADA was set up because the previous USOC systems were probably corrupt and/or incompetent.

 

[Alun]

The most positive thing to come out of this will be the knowledge that whatever you take in the way of PEDS that may be undetectable now science will eventually catch up and you'll be nailed it some point in the future.

Do you think that all the dopers have been caught, or just a percentage of them?
The sad thing is that there are people who think they can get away with it, and unfortunately some (many?) do

 

[BJH]

Or he could be so fed up of it all, doesn't believe there is any chance of getting a fair trial, and so there is no point to fighting it, as the outcome has already been decided before it begins.

Personally, without absolute proof of an action, from the actual time of the offence, I do not see how they can strip him of the titles. It seems to me a gross miscarriage.

Well they can because he has not offered any defence.

If you follow your logic on this a court case for murder would go as follows, the alleged murderer is charged on the back of eye witness testimony, but refuses to attend court where the evidence can be heard, then claims that he's innocent as there is no firm evidence against him.

I think you should prepare yourself for a big shock because once these other cases are settled and the evidence comes to light I think you will have some very detailed eye witness accounts including household name riders who will say they saw him dope.

When that happens, he will no doubt claim they are all liars and it's a further conspiracy which the Lance fans will no doubt accept because there is no time machine for us all to travel back and physically see him drop the offending growth hormones etc into his veins

 

[albion]

Whilst Armstrong may well be guilty, you can bet a few dollars on one of those who gave written statements coming back once retired, and saying 'I only said what was asked of me in order to continue racing'.

This leaves me slightly doubting we will ever get to see the evidence.

 

[rich p]

Whilst Armstrong may well be guilty, you can bet a few dollars on one of those who gave written statements coming back once retired, and saying 'I only said what was asked of me in order to continue racing'.

This leaves me slightly doubting we will ever get to see the evidence.

FFS

 

[Smokin Joe]

Whilst Armstrong may well be guilty, you can bet a few dollars on one of those who gave written statements coming back once retired, and saying 'I only said what was asked of me in order to continue racing'.

This leaves me slightly doubting we will ever get to see the evidence.

How many dollars would you like to bet? Add a few noughts if you want.

What you've suggested won't happen, because if any rider did later admit he'd lied LA could and would sue the arse off him for giving false evidence to the body that stripped him of all his TdF wins. And the evidence will come out after the correct procedures have been followed, as many have pointed out here.

I'm afraid those of you who still cling to the belief that it is all an anti-American witch hunt are sadly deluded.

 

[Alun]

Well they can because he has not offered any defence.

If you follow your logic on this a court case for murder would go as follows, the alleged murderer is charged on the back of eye witness testimony, but refuses to attend court where the evidence can be heard, then claims that he's innocent as there is no firm evidence against him.

I think you should prepare yourself for a big shock because once these other cases are settled and the evidence comes to light I think you will have some very detailed eye witness accounts including household name riders who will say they saw him dope.

When that happens, he will no doubt claim they are all liars and it's a further conspiracy which the Lance fans will no doubt accept because there is no time machine for us all to travel back and physically see him drop the offending growth hormones etc into his veins

The growth homone allegations were from a time prior to 1997, I can't be more specific because USADA haven't published that information yet. As Armstrong has been banned from Aug 1998, I can only assume that USADA have let him off those charges.

 

[marinyork]

Stripping someone of a title does not automatically mean someone else will take their place.

You're essentially just putting a star next to the name and putting a footnote.

This is worth repeating.

There are various things you can do. In athletics some gold medals have been left 'vacant' for stints of time until it's been decided what to do and as 2nd place has failed a doping test of heavily suspected they haven't been upgraded to Gold. As people have posted several times now the top few in the TDFs in those years and how nearly all of them were done or heavily suspected of doping I think they'd be left vacant.

For example I watched Marion Jones win the 100m sprint in the 2000 Sydney summer olympics. In 2003 BALCO broke. 2004 she got linked to it. After various other things hintingly heavily at drug use she got stripped of the gold in 2007 after admitting. The IOC spent 2 years arguing about whether to award the silver to Thanou, but since Thanou had missed tests and been through all that jazz too and suspended from the 2004 olympics after, they now have 2 silver medals and a bronze medal and no gold.

Similarly I saw the american team win the 4x400m in Sydney. By various convoluted stories going on from 2003 it turns out that 3 of them doped and got rumbled for it between 2003 and 2008 at which point medals were taken away and overturned (by CAS) until eventually Nigeria was elevated to gold.

I'd think a very similar thing could happen with this, that the TDF winners for 1999-2005 will simply remain vacant (after a similar process of a couple of years arguing about it).

 

[marinyork]

What you've suggested won't happen, because if any rider did later admit he'd lied LA could and would sue the arse off him for giving false evidence to the body that stripped him of all his TdF wins. And the evidence will come out after the correct procedures have been followed, as many have pointed out here.

Or worse than suing them (remember the federal investigation). Again sorry to be a bore but very similar things have happened in athletics. And riders would have knowledge of the fallout from BALCO as well as knowing how Lance is.

 

[Zofo]

What a farce--trying to re-write history never works, so lets face it- most sensible cycle fans know who the best man was over 7 tours , it was probably a fairly level playing field anyway as practically the whole peloton was on something. LA is a living legend-get over it!.

 

[BJH]

The growth homone allegations were from a time prior to 1997, I can't be more specific because USADA haven't published that information yet. As Armstrong has been banned from Aug 1998, I can only assume that USADA have let him off those charges.

I stand by everything I said in the original post, I used growth hormone in this example not from any specific individual charge, just one of the likely things he has used in his career.
Substitute EPO and the rest stands.
The coffee may well be brewing but Isuspect not everyone has woken up yet.