Armstrong charged and banned

[albion]

What you've suggested won't happen, because if any rider did later admit he'd lied LA could and would sue the arse off him for giving false evidence to the body that stripped him of all his TdF wins.

And there was me already of the thought that the chorus would become 'Armstrong has paid him'.

 

[Chuffy]

What a farce--trying to re-write history never works, so lets face it- most sensible cycle fans know who the best man was over 7 tours , it was probably a fairly level playing field anyway as practically the whole peloton was on something. LA is a living legend-get over it!.

The old 'level playing field' line is complete crap. Read this interview with Vaughters where he explains it. Page 4 is the relevant page, but do read the rest of the story.

I'd also refer you to my earlier post about Lance being a legend...

 

[BJH]

What a farce--trying to re-write history never works, so lets face it- most sensible cycle fans know who the best man was over 7 tours , it was probably a fairly level playing field anyway as practically the whole peloton was on something. LA is a living legend-get over it!.

That only stands if you can prove categorically that not a single rider in those tours didn't dope. If one was clean then that makes him a cheat.

That's right a real life, all American living legend cheating, liar.

I have no doubt that based on his track record for resorting to threats of legal action, if he was innocent he would spend every penny he has to defend himself. Of course he would also need to be absolutely innocent before attempting this course of action.

He's been caught and the ban is the consequence for his actions and you really do need to get over it

 

[Alun]

This is worth repeating.

There are various things you can do. In athletics some gold medals have been left 'vacant' for stints of time until it's been decided what to do and as 2nd place has failed a doping test of heavily suspected they haven't been upgraded to Gold. As people have posted several times now the top few in the TDFs in those years and how nearly all of them were done or heavily suspected of doping I think they'd be left vacant.

For example I watched Marion Jones win the 100m sprint in the 2000 Sydney summer olympics. In 2003 BALCO broke. 2004 she got linked to it. After various other things hintingly heavily at drug use she got stripped of the gold in 2007 after admitting. The IOC spent 2 years arguing about whether to award the silver to Thanou, but since Thanou had missed tests and been through all that jazz too and suspended from the 2004 olympics after, they now have 2 silver medals and a bronze medal and no gold.

Similarly I saw the american team win the 4x400m in Sydney. By various convoluted stories going on from 2003 it turns out that 3 of them doped and got rumbled for it between 2003 and 2008 at which point medals were taken away and overturned (by CAS) until eventually Nigeria was elevated to gold.

I'd think a very similar thing could happen with this, that the TDF winners for 1999-2005 will simply remain vacant (after a similar process of a couple of years arguing about it).

This isn't athletics, though. It is Pro cycling and it is governed by the rules of the UCI which state that where a rider is disqualified after the results of a race have been sanctioned then the first 20 places shall be adjusted. That means the win goes to the second placed rider. What he goes on to do in future is a different matter, unless he too is disqualified from the race in question.

 

[marinyork]

This isn't athletics, though. It is Pro cycling and it is governed by the rules of the UCI which state that where a rider is disqualified after the results of a race have been sanctioned then the first 20 places shall be adjusted. That means the win goes to the second placed rider. What he goes on to do in future is a different matter, unless he too is disqualified from the race in question.

Think you're missing the point completely trying to be clever pointing out the obvious.

The point really being that just like in athletics they'll spend ages arguing about it (as has actually happened in cycling - again obviously). It's not like athletics actually wants vacant medals is it? The other point being looking at another sport so we can get some perspective without going into battle with each other arguing endlessly about the past.

 

[Mr Haematocrit]

What a farce--LA is a living legend-get over it!.

LA will continue to devide opinion, its a marmite situation... I personally view LA based on the manner he acted towards Filippo Simeoni. I do not believe that this was the behaviour of a decent or basically nice person. Some people will view him as a legend while others like myself think he painted himself into a corner and would not want to face the humilation of being forced to face the truth.. He was a bully, a manipulator, a farce.
I wanted a hero, I wanted that super guy who got ill and recovered to greatness. I wanted that great story and to know the good guys win. Instead i got a fake, and a bully who found it acceptable to intimidate people for which he was warned by italian police about.
I was overjoyed about the news, not because I care about doping or charges against LA but because I sleep easier at night believing if your a nasty scumbag karma eventually gets you

 

[Alun]

I stand by everything I said in the original post, I used growth hormone in this example not from any specific individual charge, just one of the likely things he has used in his career.
Substitute EPO and the rest stands.
The coffee may well be brewing but Isuspect not everyone has woken up yet.

So to summarise:
1) You stand by everything you said.
2) You state he used growth hormone, because it was likely that he used it.
3) It might not have been growth hormone, it might have been EPO.
4) But you stand by everything else that you said.

 

[rich p]

This is a cathartic day when the man who put the science into scientific doping has admitted his guilt to any right thinkng person and all some on here are concerned about is who finished second. FFS! It's irrelevant!

 

[laurence]

LA will continue to devide opinion, its a marmite situation... I personally view LA based on the manner he acted towards Filippo Simeoni. I do not believe that this was the behaviour of a decent or basically nice person. Some people will view him as a legend while others like myself think he painted himself into a corner and would not want to face the humilation of being forced to face the truth.. He was a bully, a manipulator, a farce.
I wanted a hero, I wanted that super guy who got ill and recovered to greatness. I wanted that great story and to know the good guys win. Instead i got a fake, and a bully who found it acceptable to intimidate people for which he was warned by italian police about.
I was overjoyed about the news, not because I care about doping or charges against LA but because I sleep easier at night believing if your a nasty scumbag karma eventually gets you

^^^^^ this. The Simeoni episode was the turning point for me. any pretence in my mind that he was clean went on that stage.

he has always reminded me of the Bubble Boy in the Seinfeld episode of the same name. no one could say anything bad about the BB because he lived in a bubble and was sick, no matter how odious he was (and he was very odious). whenever you criticised LA people would say "but he had cancer".

 

[Chuffy]

can I ask a simple question, how come Armstrong gets a life ban but a pro rider still riding gets a 2 year ban max,

As I understand it, he isn't getting a simple ban for doping. It's for doping & dealing/trafficking in illegal drugs.That's where the testimony from team mates comes in.

 

[Chuffy]

^^^^^ this. The Simeoni episode was the turning point for me. any pretence in my mind that he was clean went on that stage.

he has always reminded me of the Bubble Boy in the Seinfeld episode of the same name. no one could say anything bad about the BB because he lived in a bubble and was sick, no matter how odious he was (and he was very odious). whenever you criticised LA people would say "but he had cancer".

I was (probably) lucky because I only got into cycling in 2003, so I never went through the process of having to decide how I felt about this new 'hero'. I just thought he came across as a rather unpleasant alpha-male. Nothing I read or saw subsequently changed my mind on that.

 

[zimzum42]

I remember Lance as a young rider in some of the early 90s tours, and he was a prick then. Some people said it was refreshing to see a new attitude in the peloton, but the rest of us just saw an arrogant bastard who had no respect for other riders (save for him coming over all emotional about Casartelli and then stealing the headlines)

 

[Alun]

Think you're missing the point completely trying to be clever pointing out the obvious.

The point really being that just like in athletics they'll spend ages arguing about it (as has actually happened in cycling - again obviously). It's not like athletics actually wants vacant medals is it? The other point being looking at another sport so we can get some perspective without going into battle with each other arguing endlessly about the past.

Not trying to be clever at all.
The UCI have laid down rules for when cyclists are disqualified.
Armstrong has been disqualified.
The rules should be followed as in the cases of Contador and Landis.
What has happened in Athletics maybe interesting, but I don't see how it will influence what should happen in this case.
There'll be plenty of argument, but provided the UCI follow their own rules, there should be no justification to ask Judge Sparks or his equivalent to intervene.

 

[david k]

The most positive thing to come out of this will be the knowledge that whatever you take in the way of PEDS that may be undetectable now science will eventually catch up and you'll be nailed it some point in the future.

we hope

 

[MichaelM]

What a farce--trying to re-write history never works, so lets face it- most sensible cycle fans know who the best man was over 7 tours , it was probably a fairly level playing field anyway as practically the whole peloton was on something. LA is a living legend-get over it!.

I always knew it was Ullrich (check the records from 1999 -2005).