Armstrong charged and banned
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Some of the answers are further back in the thread Andrius.b. It's such a large and complex subject it's difficult to give an easy explanation.
If you back in time to the height of the EPO era, then a large number of riders were riding 'prepared'. Fast Forward to today and the introduction of the biological passport and we think the numbers are much smaller and the effect far less dramatic. Witness Evans winning last year and he is largely thought to be a clean rider. If you look to the top of the previous page and the link Paulb provided, it clearly shows the performance levels declining as testing became better, culminating in the introduction of the biological passport.
5% is often a figure mentioned in terms of extra power output for a doped rider but it's not just the power it's the ability to maintain it. Again, earlier in the thread this was talked about in terms of the times riders take to do well known climbs like Alpe d'huez. THe best times were all posted in what was thought to be the height of EPO use.
If you back in time to the height of the EPO era, then a large number of riders were riding 'prepared'. Fast Forward to today and the introduction of the biological passport and we think the numbers are much smaller and the effect far less dramatic. Witness Evans winning last year and he is largely thought to be a clean rider. If you look to the top of the previous page and the link Paulb provided, it clearly shows the performance levels declining as testing became better, culminating in the introduction of the biological passport.
5% is often a figure mentioned in terms of extra power output for a doped rider but it's not just the power it's the ability to maintain it. Again, earlier in the thread this was talked about in terms of the times riders take to do well known climbs like Alpe d'huez. THe best times were all posted in what was thought to be the height of EPO use.
Chuffy
Veteran
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- On the banks of the Exe
Anyone surprised that the five named were part of the USP doping circle must have been living in a cave. It was also pretty obvious that Slipstream was the reformed ex-dopers team right from the start and JV has dropped plenty hints over the years about his murky and regretted past. I wouldn't worry about Wiggy's association with JV, he's straight.
Agreed. I think Vaughters is good to his word and Slipstream operates clean. He's got an interesting philosophy; that past is the past, you don't dwell on it and you move on BUT if asked officially then you tell the truth. It's a difficult line to walk imo, and I do feel uneasy about, but I believe him to be.... I want to say sincere but I can't quite get there!
Absolutely, you could say it's a noble stance. I guess he knew that one day his past would catch him up and he's chosen to face up to it, quite probably at some personal cost but at the same time that past will cast a pall on anything he has to say and on his credibility. Or maybe not, it's why I said before, I'll be watching with interest.
Noodley
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You think so? Why would anyone that is in anyway interested not take time to bother reading this thread or do a bit of research? Laziness. Pure and simple. And not being that interested.
smutchin
Cat 6 Racer
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Yes, Millar more or less says as much in his book. I figured Vandevelde was probably an ex-doper, but not Vaughters, simply because he doesn't come across as someone who ever had that "win at all costs" mentality. But yes, he was at Discovery for a while, so...
Andrius.B, there is no short answer, but if you genuinely want to know more, you could do a lot worse than read Millar's book.
d.
Noodley
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Nope, he's now gone off and read for a couple of hours and now knows more...as I said, take time to find out.
You're gonna become very tiresome if you just keep writing the same thing btw.
Principled, that's the word I'm looking for. Whether you agree with the principles is another matter.
Be careful, it can become addictive!
I had pretty much no interest in the subject a few years ago. Then I started reading. I probably come across as a bit zealous to some people but that's because it is all relatively new to me. There are many many people that have been hearing this stuff for decades and have grown weary of it all, I can get my head around that. I know there are people on this forum in that category; they have a good depth on the subject and occasionally chip in. I value such contributions.
For me, speaking generally, I think the thing that is most worrying is how a lie can be believed by so many for so long. People generally are decent and trusting, we tend to believe. That can be manipulated.
This is worth a read. It talks a little about blood doping and then goes on to explain the function of the biopassport and how the detection of manipulation/doping is made. It is a complicated subject so don't expect a bite size explanation. I would have liked to have been able to post a quote, just to give a flavour, but that's not really possible as it'd make no sense out of context and sequence and so may put readers off. So you'll just have to read it ...but hang in there, there's no complex jargon!
http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/07/news/ashenden-understanding-usadas-armstrong-charges_227833
The interviewee, Michael Ashenden, is no stranger to the subject and has been quite outspoken in the past. He was a member of the UCI anti-doping panel but resigned as he felt conflicted by his role. Interestingly, he says he has not seen the USADA evidence and that surprises me. I would have guessed he was one of the experts called on to do the analysis.
http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/07/news/ashenden-understanding-usadas-armstrong-charges_227833
The interviewee, Michael Ashenden, is no stranger to the subject and has been quite outspoken in the past. He was a member of the UCI anti-doping panel but resigned as he felt conflicted by his role. Interestingly, he says he has not seen the USADA evidence and that surprises me. I would have guessed he was one of the experts called on to do the analysis.
Chuffy
Veteran
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- On the banks of the Exe
Apparently there's an article on JV in todays L'Equipe which describes him as a Grey Knight. I like that, very apt. He gets a *lot* of grief from people (idiots, in my opinion) who want him to spill his guts about USP etc. He's never denied doping or being party to doping practices during his career as a rider and has dropped loads of hints that don't leave much to the imagination but hasn't gone down the RiisZabel tearful confession route. Largely, I suspect, because anything JV has to say is intimately connected with bigger issues - JV is just a stepping stone to get to Lance, which is probably why he's had so much grief from internet morons (hello Cycling News Clinic people!) and Kimmage. Until the Federal investigation started up, followed by this USADA investigation, there was never a mechanism for JV, or the other old lags on his team (VdV, DZ etc) to tell all in safety. If they'd done a confessional interview without serious back-up you can bet every penny you have that their careers would be over and their reputations trashed, all without harming a hair on Lance's nasty, beaky head. The USADA investigation means that their input will have meaning, weight and consequences. Some people (oooh, more morons!) hail Landis (and Hamilton) as a hero and make unfavourable comparisons to his spotless ex-teammates, but the truth is that Landis only 'fessed up after years of lies and bullshit and when he had absolutely *nothing* left to lose. Had he been offered a job on Radioshack we wouldn't be having this conversation now. Landis deserves credit for finally doing the right thing, but he's no hero.
JV and the others are absolutely doing the right thing at the right time.
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