Are we being forced to go electric?

[Pale Rider]

A 'like' just for mentioning Ford's jelly mould.

Caused quite a stir at the time.

Ford's latest family car always did, but the shape of the Sierra pushed the attention level up a notch.

I had a couple, typical Fords, not the most exciting, but competent in all respects - ideal cars for a motorist paying his own way.

Mentioning a Land Rover in an aerodynamic contest is dumb.

The speeds the vehicle is designed to travel render aerodynamics irrelevant.

Which brings me to my next point.

I think we all know the slower you go, the less important aerodynamics become.

We are all being encouraged/forced to drive more slowly, so I think in the real world there is a danger of overstating the importance of aero - should sound familiar to members of a cycling forum.

 

[Jameshow]

A 'like' just for mentioning Ford's jelly mould.

Caused quite a stir at the time.

Ford's latest family car always did, but the shape of the Sierra pushed the attention level up a notch.

I had a couple, typical Fords, not the most exciting, but competent in all respects - ideal cars for a motorist paying his own way.

Mentioning a Land Rover in an aerodynamic contest is dumb.

The speeds the vehicle is designed to travel render aerodynamics irrelevant.

Which brings me to my next point.

I think we all know the slower you go, the less important aerodynamics become.

We are all being encouraged/forced to drive more slowly, so I think in the real world there is a danger of overstating the importance of aero - should sound familiar to members of a cycling forum.

What do you think Tesla's are pretty much the new ford Sierra of this century - felt like they were revolutionary at the time but carp in hindsight!🤣🤣🤣

 

[Pale Rider]

What do you think Tesla's are pretty much the new ford Sierra of this century - felt like they were revolutionary at the time but carp in hindsight!🤣🤣🤣

There could be a parallel, although I wouldn't describe the Sierra as carp.

It did fail to live up to its much loved predecessor the Cortina.

Cortinas were embedded in British family life in the way that no single car ever will be again, not least because we now have loads of models to choose from in each category.

 

[icowden]

Suggest you do some reading. It's a bit weird to mention a 70+ yr old agricultural offroad vehicle in any discussion about car aerodynamics

I would suggest that the manufacturers of the 2024 Landrover Defender would be quite upset that you don't think they have made a new car for 70 years.

Simple fact of the matter is that on the road, air resistance is overwhelmingly the force that limits your speed and range, so there has always been a strong focus to improve the aerodynamics. This has resulted in the drag coefficient of a typical car gradually reducing over the decades.

I agree, but I don't think that aero was neccessarily the primary concern when designing standard ICE cars (not sports cars). It is for EVs.

The Lightspeed 0 launched last year with a drag coefficient of 0.175, but seems to have stopped production within a couple of months. I think that leaves VW with the drag coefficient crown.

Before that was Tesla:

And why was Tesla holding the crown? Was it because they were making EVS?

I didn't say that ICE cars are not aerodynamically efficient, just that no-one was that bothered if the aero was optimal or not because you can have a big engine and loads of petrol.

IIRC USA designed cars had no aero in their design for a long time, just designing massively inefficient gas guzzlers such as Cadillac. Maybe we were a bit better in Europe due to more expensive petrol?

 

[classic33]

Model 3 has drag coefficient of 0.23. This being one of lowest figures of any modern vehicle

The Tropfenwagen(1921) had a Coefficient of drag (Cd) of .28, when tested in a wind tunnel in 1979.

 

[icowden]

The Tropfenwagen(1921) had a Coefficient of drag (Cd) of .28, when tested in a wind tunnel in 1979.

Which I think tells us that in the very early days of cars, aero was important to some designers as it enabled their cars to go a bit further?
Wiki tells us:-

It was to be the first streamlined production car, before the Chrysler Airflow and Tatra T77.The Rumpler was already wind tunnel optimized at the Aerodynamics Research Institute in Göttingen[1] and had a drag coefficient of only 0.28, a value that astonished later engineers when they tested the Tropfenwagen in the 1970s

They only sold 100 of them though.

 

[Gunk]

The people currently living in the parts of Europe that are on fire may beg to differ..

I don’t think that’s really just attributed to me driving a reasonably efficient Diesel BMW.

 

[icowden]

I don’t think that’s really just attributed to me driving a reasonably efficient Diesel BMW.

Just as well that I didn't attribute you driving a reasonable efficient Diesel BMW to the heatwave scorching Europe then.

What I did do was point out that there very much *is* a problem with old fashioned and the gasses being emitted from your tail pipe are not helping. Every tail pipe we remove from the roads helps.

 

[classic33]

Which I think tells us that in the very early days of cars, aero was important to some designers as it enabled their cars to go a bit further?
Wiki tells us:-


They only sold 100 of them though.

Which is exactly what Tesla are doing with their cars. Wing mirrors are something they want to get rid off. Just to increase their range.

Not much has changed over the last 100 years. As you've just proved.

An "odder" way of looking at electric cars, is actually the aerodynamics. When looking at a functional design for everyday use, it gives a better reason for lowering speed limits.

Be careful what you wish for.

 

[classic33]

Just as well that I didn't attribute you driving a reasonable efficient Diesel BMW to the heatwave scorching Europe then.

What I did do was point out that there very much *is* a problem with old fashioned and the gasses being emitted from your tail pipe are not helping. Every tail pipe we remove from the roads helps.

Every private car removed from the roads helps even more.

 

[Pale Rider]

The Tropfenwagen(

Top name, I'd love to own one of those.

Another is a Zil - who couldn't feel good telling someone 'I drive a Zil'?

For those unaware, it was a dreadful Russian cold war limo-like contraption.

 

[Andy in Germany]

... I don't think that aero was neccessarily the primary concern when designing standard ICE cars (not sports cars). It is for EVs.

... no-one was that bothered if the aero was optimal or not because you can have a big engine and loads of petrol.

IIRC USA designed cars had no aero in their design for a long time, just designing massively inefficient gas guzzlers such as Cadillac. Maybe we were a bit better in Europe due to more expensive petrol?

This returns us to the earlier issue: the energy return from oil is unfortunately far higher than from batteries, which is why aerodynamics is of primary concern; so they can look like a viable replacement.

 

[icowden]

This returns us to the earlier issue: the energy return from oil is unfortunately far higher than from batteries, which is why aerodynamics is of primary concern;

It really isn't. Batteries have 90% efficiency compare to oil which is about 40%.

 

[cougie uk]

This returns us to the earlier issue: the energy return from oil is unfortunately far higher than from batteries, which is why aerodynamics is of primary concern; to they can look like a viable replacement.

It'd be nice if we were to maximize efficiency though. Why waste resources - even if they are renewable?

 

[TheDoctor]

I think AiG might mean energy density.
The battery pack for a 100 mile range in a car, say, is a lot bigger and heavier than a 2-3 gallon fuel tank. And the battery pack on my bike (range about 25 miles) is half the size of the fuel tank on my old Honda C50, which did about 170 miles on a fill.