Are we being forced to go electric?

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All uphill

Still rolling along
Location
Somerset
I think these posts are demonstrating the elephant in the room: EV's are an attempt to sustain a system built on oil, using another energy source which doesn't have the same energy return.

The way we've been transporting goods and people for the last couple of generations isn't sustainable, nor is it normal. It also isn't economical if we don't have access to oil in the same quantities as before, so we need to rethink our expectations. We have the technology to transport ourselves and goods for short, middle and long distances, and we've had them over a century; we don't need EV's apart from some specialised roles.

Unfortunately change is a bit scary, and as a result we have a lot of individuals and companies telling us technology will mean we can keep doing what we want with no consequences. This is believed not because it is true but because is sounds good, and mostly because it tells people what they really want to hear. History shows that this generally has to run its course, and will be tried until its obviously not going to work, and then we'll move on.

Well put, @Andy in Germany .

This is a difficult message following seventy years of personal car ownership which has given great freedom to individuals at a very high cost to society.

Changing that requires some vision and leadership which is in short supply.
 
It is for a lot of football fans who regularly follow their teams away from home.

But they'd be stopping surely so they could recharge?
 

Chislenko

Veteran
But they'd be stopping surely so they could recharge?

Not really, when I regularly used to go away we would just drive to our destination and have a beer when we got there.

When I was a Wales regular North Wales down to Cardiff was always done in one hit. If you were lucky you could find parking on Cathedral Road but certainly it was a first come first served basis (if you see a space get in it!) so highly unlikely you would pull in by a charger (if there are any)
 
Not really, when I regularly used to go away we would just drive to our destination and have a beer when we got there.

When I was a Wales regular North Wales down to Cardiff was always done in one hit. If you were lucky you could find parking on Cathedral Road but certainly it was a first come first served basis (if you see a space get in it!) so highly unlikely you would pull in by a charger (if there are any)

You'd definitely be stopping for a wee on the way back surely ?
 

Chislenko

Veteran
You'd definitely be stopping for a wee on the way back surely ?

I can assume you have never travelled the A470 / A483 up from Cardiff after a night match! Trust me the only place you will find to relieve yourself is the side of the road. Service stations etc are very few on the ground during the day but at night you have no hope!! It is many miles of nothing!
 

Alex321

Guru
Location
South Wales
I can assume you have never travelled the A470 / A483 up from Cardiff after a night match! Trust me the only place you will find to relieve yourself is the side of the road. Service stations etc are very few on the ground during the day but at night you have no hope!! It is many miles of nothing!

Yeah, there are some loos, but not many. The new car park at Storey Arms, the car park by the river in Builth Wells, the car park by the leisure centre in Rhyader. Not sure where there may be any North of there. Probably Welshpool.
 

FishFright

More wheels than sense
Well put, @Andy in Germany .

This is a difficult message following seventy years of personal car ownership which has given great freedom to individuals at a very high cost to society.

Changing that requires some vision and leadership which is in short supply.

What it mostly needs is a willingness to change ,. As we can see from this thread and many other similar ones , a majority would rather do nothing than change anything.

It's time stop waiting for other people to hold the hands of drivers and start handing out the whip.
 

Alex321

Guru
Location
South Wales
What it mostly needs is a willingness to change ,. As we can see from this thread and many other similar ones , a majority would rather do nothing than change anything.

It's time stop waiting for other people to hold the hands of drivers and start handing out the whip.

Not likely to happen, beyond what is already being done (I.e. ULEZ zones, banning sale of new ICE cars). Any party that had a manifesto including actual restrictions on car ownership just wouldn't get elected.

Even in this group, where we are all reasonably keen cyclists (or we wouldn't be here), from what I can gather, most of us have at least one car per household, often more.

The issue is that any change in widespread car use (note I say "use" not "ownership") will require a MASSIVE change in lifestyle for a large portion of the population, and a significant reduction in quality of life for many. More than most would be willing to undergo.
 
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icowden

Veteran
Location
Surrey
I think these posts are demonstrating the elephant in the room: EV's are an attempt to sustain a system built on oil, using another energy source which doesn't have the same energy return.
Not if you look at Tesla's philosophy and they are the ones that put in the momentum. An EV uses electricity and that can be generated by Solar and Wind. Our government isn't (at the moment) motivated to hugely increase solar and wind although solutions are being created all over the place. Own a skyscraper or large building - put solar on the roof. Own a multistorey carpark with an open top - put roof top solar up above the cars. Own a farm and want to maximise your cash after the UK Govt has failed to subsidise you - install solar above your crops etc etc.

The way we've been transporting goods and people for the last couple of generations isn't sustainable, nor is it normal.
Ah but what is normal? The philosophers have debated this for millennia... Books and newspapers were once thought to be antisocial.

It also isn't economical if we don't have access to oil in the same quantities as before, so we need to rethink our expectations.
Why not?

We have the technology to transport ourselves and goods for short, middle and long distances, and we've had them over a century; we don't need EV's apart from some specialised roles.
How are you moving them? Electric train? Electric boat? Electric plane?
 

marzjennings

Legendary Member
What it mostly needs is a willingness to change ,. As we can see from this thread and many other similar ones , a majority would rather do nothing than change anything.

It's time stop waiting for other people to hold the hands of drivers and start handing out the whip.

Yes, there's no willingness to change from me with regards to owning a personal vehicle that can take me where I what to go whenever I want to. Being that an ICE, EV, Hydrogen or what ever technology powers the vehicle. Even as a keen cyclist, I like having a car to take me and the bike to places so I can ride there. I'm all for improving car technology, and even as an oilman of 30 years, I'm all for the move to EV's, but there'll be significant gnashing of teeth before I give up my car.
 

FishFright

More wheels than sense
Yes, there's no willingness to change from me with regards to owning a personal vehicle that can take me where I what to go whenever I want to. Being that an ICE, EV, Hydrogen or what ever technology powers the vehicle. Even as a keen cyclist, I like having a car to take me and the bike to places so I can ride there. I'm all for improving car technology, and even as an oilman of 30 years, I'm all for the move to EV's, but there'll be significant gnashing of teeth before I give up my car.

How ever much I dislike cars on the road I can't say I blame you. Life is built around easy transport and for most people the car is the best solution.
 
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