Are we being forced to go electric?

[mjr]

I believe Just Stop Oil banners are also made from oil!

Mostly plant oil and vegetable dyes, but they very clearly don't claim to be immune from the problems that they're trying to stop. A big point is that we can't solve it all ourselves and need governments to do their farking jobs, doing things like outlawing thermal engines and encouraging EVs and micro mobility. Lest this go too NACA again, their answer to the topic question would probably be "no, but we should be".

 

[rogerzilla]

What? Aren't all your drives along splendidly empty dual carriageways straight from your home to your destination? 😱

Weirdly, that would give you worse range in a Zoe. EVs do best in stop-start, congested traffic because average speeds are lower (so less air resistance) and they can use regenerative braking. ICE cars like constant low to medium speeds.

 

[Fastpedaller]

Our petrol Ford doesn't seem to vary much on its economy....... 49MPG all year round +- 0.5MPG whether we drive A road/motorway or rural roads. I suspect the VVT system is a big improvement over a fixed valve timing.

 

[geocycle]

The Zoe is a pretty good option. The son has one and gets 190 to 220 miles range out of it. It gets him all round the Lake District and northern England with no major problems and he can’t charge at home. Just needs some planning.

There are limitations for example we are going to Headingley tomorrow for the cricket which would be just bout 200 miles. He couldn’t guarantee a park and charge while we are at the match and the best option would have been finding somewhere on the way back for half an hour charge while we have our traditional chips. In the end I’m driving!

 

[Gunk]

Loophole exists....

I can ride my 1960 Tiger Cub into London!

Not that I’d want to

 

[Pale Rider]

The Zoe is a pretty good option. The son has one and gets 190 to 220 miles range out of it. It gets him all round the Lake District and northern England with no major problems and he can’t charge at home. Just needs some planning.

There are limitations for example we are going to Headingley tomorrow for the cricket which would be just bout 200 miles. He couldn’t guarantee a park and charge while we are at the match and the best option would have been finding somewhere on the way back for half an hour charge while we have our traditional chips. In the end I’m driving!

A day at the cricket is far more interesting than how you get there, but your journey does rather illustrate the problems with EVs.

Paying £25k+ for any car then finding you can't use it for a straightforward day out is not acceptable in 2023.

On the bright side, using 100-year-old technology will mean you get to see Root and Stokes bat - provided you get there early enough.

 

[icowden]

Paying £25k+ for any car then finding you can't use it for a straightforward day out is not acceptable in 2023.

I'm not sure a 200 mile trip is a straightforward day out...

 

[Dadam]

Paying £25k+ for any car then finding you can't use it for a straightforward day out is not acceptable in 2023.

But they didn’t find out they couldn’t use it did they? They couldn’t guarantee to be able to charge at the match, so “the best option” was to find a fast charge on the way back. The best option, not the only option. Ergo, they could have used it for a straightforward day out.

 

[KnittyNorah]

I'm not sure a 200 mile trip is a straightforward day out...

It's not, here in the UK, but it would be in many other parts of the world.

 

[icowden]

It's not, here in the UK, but it would be in many other parts of the world.

I take your point but the specific example given was from the Lake District to Headingly, a journey of about 80 miles or so each way. Achievable in a Zoe but probably requiring one stop for a top up on the way back.

 

[Chislenko]

I'm not sure a 200 mile trip is a straightforward day out...

It is for a lot of football fans who regularly follow their teams away from home.

 

[rogerzilla]

Or a typical trip to an airport to go on holiday. It's 100 miles from here to Gatwick (the nearest airport TUI use). You'd want at least a 250 mile range to avoid an expensive motorway charge on the way there or back. EVs don't make financial sense yet in any case, but they are less bad if you can always charge at home. Owners of old Teslas with free charging can, of course, ignore the above.

 

[Andy in Germany]

I think these posts are demonstrating the elephant in the room: EV's are an attempt to sustain a system built on oil, using another energy source which doesn't have the same energy return.

The way we've been transporting goods and people for the last couple of generations isn't sustainable, nor is it normal. It also isn't economical if we don't have access to oil in the same quantities as before, so we need to rethink our expectations. We have the technology to transport ourselves and goods for short, middle and long distances, and we've had them over a century; we don't need EV's apart from some specialised roles.

Unfortunately change is a bit scary, and as a result we have a lot of individuals and companies telling us technology will mean we can keep doing what we want with no consequences. This is believed not because it is true but because is sounds good, and mostly because it tells people what they really want to hear. History shows that this generally has to run its course, and will be tried until its obviously not going to work, and then we'll move on.

 

[icowden]

You'd want at least a 250 mile range to avoid an expensive motorway charge on the way there or back

It's not compulsory to charge on the motorway, and you don't have to take a full charge. That Zoe for example would probably want a 40% charge.

. EVs don't make financial sense yet in any case, but they are less bad if you can always charge at home.

Not sure about this. The Renault Grand Scenic costs about £30k (that's what I used to have). The ID4 costs just under £50k. So that's £20k difference. I would estimate that I used to fill up the scenic fortnightly for about £100. So that's £2,600 in diesel per year. For the same amount of "filling up" and allowing that the scenic has roughly double the range of the ID4, the ID4 costs me £320 a year to fill up. So £2300 cheaper per year just on fuel. It's also likely saving me a couple of grand in maintenance and repairs over 10 years. I reckon by 6 years in, I'd be quids in over the ICE car.

 

[rogerzilla]

I only do about 5,000 miles a year so the economics are quite different and the fuel savings would never claw back the price difference over the life of the vehicle. You must be doing around 15,000, which is almost double the UK average.

I'm not anti-EV and I fully intended to buy one this time around, but all the numbers (cars, "fuel", grants and taxation) have gone in the wrong direction. Added to that, the PCP cost is exorbitant because the makers are using very pessimistic residuals. I have no appetite for a £450/month deal, especially for a car at the lower end of the range, er, range.