Are we being forced to go electric?

[classic33]

Why would there be an obstruction on the footpath? Are you parking on the pavement?

Any more? I'm guessing the next question will be
"but what if there's a removal van?"
"but what if someone leaves an unattended elephant in the way?"
"but what if the street has no lights at all'?

etc.

*Most* people have the ability to access a charger. More chargers can be installed in *most* places whether it's a lamp post, a bollard or whatever.
Simple. As demand increases, infrastructure will improve and increase, as will technology. Batteries will get smaller, lighter and longer range etc.
Probably the biggest risk is getting into an iPhone type situation where new charge types keep coming out and everyone needs a new model of car because of design changes and tech improvements.

I'm talking about the charging cable, that seemingly eliminates all distance requirements.

 

[cougie uk]

I have access to none the areas you mention as they just do not exist where I live and travel.

I count 8 chargers on the Isle of Mull. All you need is an electric socket. There are potentially hundreds/thousands of charging points in Mull.

 

[KnittyNorah]

the majority will charge at home as has been mentioned many times.

The majority (60%) of homes in larger towns and cities do not have access to off-street parking, and are thus unable to charge at home, even if the majority of properties, over the entirety of the UK, do have it. Where are the residents in these 60% of homes expected to charge their cars (especially as they naturally want to pay only at domestic or near-domestic rates)?
None of them are going to consider buying an EV until they know where they can safely, conveniently and economically charge it on a regular basis. Charging infrastructure needs to be put in place - or at the very least needs to be seen to being put in place over large swathes of the land and in all regions - BEFORE any mass switchover to EVs will, or even can, take place.

 

[classic33]

Why would there be an obstruction on the footpath? Are you parking on the pavement?

Any more? I'm guessing the next question will be
"but what if there's a removal van?"
"but what if someone leaves an unattended elephant in the way?"
"but what if the street has no lights at all'?

etc.

*Most* people have the ability to access a charger. More chargers can be installed in *most* places whether it's a lamp post, a bollard or whatever.
Simple. As demand increases, infrastructure will improve and increase, as will technology. Batteries will get smaller, lighter and longer range etc.
Probably the biggest risk is getting into an iPhone type situation where new charge types keep coming out and everyone needs a new model of car because of design changes and tech improvements.

And you expect the companies placing these chargers, on streets, to keep changing them?

Isn't it five different leads/connections in common use at the moment.

 

[Alex321]

If you brim the tank then drive until the light comes on, you're using extra fuel to cart around the weight of the extra fuel. I do usually drive until the light comes on, mainly because I'm not organised but I generally fill to about 1/2 to 3/4 full. I'd doubt most people would brim it and drive until near empty. Maybe I'm wrong there; it just seems wasteful and unnecessary to me but 🤷‍♂️

I suspect many people (I have no idea if it is most people or just quite a few) feel that the time taken to fill up outweighs the inefficiency of dragging around the extra weight of a full tank.

Until your remarks in this thread, I had never even considered there might be any people who would prefer NOT to completely fill every time, unless they simply couldn't afford to. It just seemed so normal to me that it is what I automatically do, and I know it is also what my wife does, both of us doing it so automatically that we have never felt the need to say anything about it.

But we may be unusual, and I just never realised.

 

[cougie uk]

The majority (60%) of homes in larger towns and cities do not have access to off-street parking, and are thus unable to charge at home, even if the majority of properties, over the entirety of the UK, do have it. Where are the residents in these 60% of homes expected to charge their cars (especially as they naturally want to pay only at domestic or near-domestic rates)?
None of them are going to consider buying an EV until they know where they can safely, conveniently and economically charge it on a regular basis. Charging infrastructure needs to be put in place - or at the very least needs to be seen to being put in place over large swathes of the land and in all regions - BEFORE any mass switchover to EVs will, or even can, take place.

And in rural areas it's only about 17% of homes don't have access to off street parking.
When I lived in London I didn't have a car - it wasn't necessary with the public transport.
Are you seriously saying that until everyone in places like London can charge a car - we shouldn't make the change ? LOL.

From June 15, 2022. Any new residential buildings with associated parking must have access to electric vehicle charge points. So it's only ever going to become easier to use an EV.

 

[jowwy]

Half the properties if that maybe have a drive but mostly only for one car. Many households have more than one vehicle

but maybe not more than one electric car...so park the leccy on the drive to charge, the rest can park were they would normally park

 

[cougie uk]

I suspect many people (I have no idea if it is most people or just quite a few) feel that the time taken to fill up outweighs the inefficiency of dragging around the extra weight of a full tank.

Until your remarks in this thread, I had never even considered there might be any people who would prefer NOT to completely fill every time, unless they simply couldn't afford to. It just seemed so normal to me that it is what I automatically do, and I know it is also what my wife does, both of us doing it so automatically that we have never felt the need to say anything about it.

But we may be unusual, and I just never realised.

When I have been in garages I see a LOT of people just putting £20 or so into the car. There's a huge amount of people not able to afford a full tank.

 

[Alex321]

They aren't. No-one is forcing them to buy a car. I lived in a terraced house with no driveway for many years. I used the bus, the tube and taxis. Usually where there are no driveways, there is better public transport.

Presumably your argument is that whilst there is one person who might not be able to charge their car conveniently and cheaply, no-one should be able to have one?

I don't think she is suggesting that or anything similar at all.

Just pointing out that the idea of everybody being able to switch to EVs is not feasible without significant changes to infrastructure, and some of those changes are not as simple as it may first appear.

And I agree there. But I do believe it likely that these problems will be solved.

I hope they will be solved by the time it becomes impractical to continue running ICE vehicles. Which will probably be some point round about 2040, with no new pure ICE from 2030, not even hybrids from 2035.

 

[Electric_Andy]

If you brim the tank then drive until the light comes on, you're using extra fuel to cart around the weight of the extra fuel

Not sure this is significant. The only roughly scientific calculation I found is this:

"To accelerate from 0-50km/h in 5 seconds (about 31mph) in a 1250kg car needs 121kJ
To accelerate from 0-50km/h in 5 seconds (about 31mph) in a 1275kg car needs 123kJ

climbing hills will also take more energy, to climb 10m takes an extra 2.5kJ
adding rolling resistance at a coefficient of 0.01 you'd need an extra 250J per km

So say in your daily 10km round trip into town you stop at traffic lights 10 times and climb 50 metres you need an extra 35kJ
1 litre of petrol contains about 32MJ and an engine is roughly 25% efficient so it would take you 229 days to waste 1 litre of fuel. At £1.32/litre thats about £2.10/year wasted, but countless trips to the petrol station you don't need to bother with

 

[jowwy]

i think a lot of people are not really thinking when it comes to leccy cars. Most buyers of leccy cars right now are people with a drive or private parking, office parking with points etc etc .....

but also most super markets and public car parks have leccy chargers now too and more are being added. By the time we all get to the point where leccy cars are the norm, charging points will be everywhere you need them to be and you can probably log into an app and choose to use your home leccy tariff to charge....maybe

 

[cougie uk]

i think a lot of people are not really thinking when it comes to leccy cars. Most buyers of leccy cars right now are people with a drive or private parking, office parking with points etc etc .....

but also most super markets and public car parks have leccy chargers now too and more are being added. By the time we all get to the point where leccy cars are the norm, charging points will be everywhere you need them to be and you can probably log into an app and choose to use your home leccy tariff to charge....maybe

2035 is still 12 years away. There will be a huge change.

 

[Alex321]

Why would there be an obstruction on the footpath? Are you parking on the pavement?

The cable itself is an obstruction - trip hazard.

Any more? I'm guessing the next question will be
"but what if there's a removal van?"
"but what if someone leaves an unattended elephant in the way?"
"but what if the street has no lights at all'?

etc.

Why would you "guess" that?

*Most* people have the ability to access a charger.

Not currently.

Whether that will be true in 10 years time, who knows?

More chargers can be installed in *most* places whether it's a lamp post, a bollard or whatever.

That is certainly true, but is the willpower there to do so among the authorities which would be responsible?

It needs to happen, I would certainly hope it will. But it will require willpower and central direction to do so.

Simple. As demand increases, infrastructure will improve and increase, as will technology. Batteries will get smaller, lighter and longer range etc.
Probably the biggest risk is getting into an iPhone type situation where new charge types keep coming out and everyone needs a new model of car because of design changes and tech improvements.

Hopefully, lessons have been learned from that, and standards will be maintained across all models.

 

[All uphill]

I'm quite enjoying this discussion; seeing change away from ownership of an expensive, polluting, congestion- causing mobile living room, to a new model where, I guess, there will be a different range of options.

BEV for those who need or want a new
car and can access a charge point.
Used ICE for those who can't immediately access a charge point.
Taxi - conventional or self-driving.
Bus - it seems likely to me that bus services will improve as car ownership becomes more difficult.
Ebike or bike for local journeys. My town is already on 13% of local journeys being made by bike.
Maybe some new options- like Renault Twizy for example.

I also predict there will still be a few people coming up with reasons why change can't happen.

 

[oldwheels]

I count 8 chargers on the Isle of Mull. All you need is an electric socket. There are potentially hundreds/thousands of charging points in Mull.

The one at Craignure was not working and no idea if is currently working.
More chargers then residents?