Are we being forced to go electric?

[FishFright]

Whilst you burn old growth forest! Nice one!!

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-63089348

Is that special electricity only for EVs? No, but a small amount of waste from primary forest is used to generate power for the nation.

In other news petrol and diesel are still wished into existence so help yourself to guilt free motoring !

I've never owned a car so ....

 

[FishFright]

I wonder if we're moving back to individual transport being a luxury - as it was in the time of horses. Good for the planet but a readjustment needed away from the idea of car ownership being a right.

Not a chance, as illustrated on this thread and many others a disturbingly huge number of people won't even stop for a coffee.

 

[MrGrumpy]

Another 8yrs before they ban the sale of new petrol/ diesel vehicles . 5yrs after that no more new hybrids. Think that’s right ? So really no rush right now, time to see what happens with second hand values and reliability of EVs or if they are scrap by the time they are 7/8yrs old .
My next car I think maybe a hybrid , might even just be another diesel ? Shall see , need to sell my caravan first though !

 

[KnittyNorah]

The technology and cars aren't too far away, IMHO, but it would be an awful wrench for the people who see their car as a status indicator, virility enhancement or personal space.

If even 20% of current car owners moved to self driving cars there could be huge benefits in terms of safety and on street parking.

Presuming that the end-of-life plans for ICE vehicles are upheld, and use of petrochemical fuels becomes severely restricted/forbidden then - unless the EV charging issue has been solved - EVs will become the sole preserve of those who can access home chargers and/or afford the spare time and the extra cost of using commercial ones. TBH I see the EV charging issue as more relevant to their uptake than the bald financial cost of the things, as the second-hand market grows and battery technology improves. Who is to say that there will not be slot-in replacement batteries available for 'older' EVs, which will not just restore their range, but actually improve on it? However, if you still can't charge it quickly, conveniently, easily and affordability, who gives a crap about how affordable the car is to purchase, new batteries and all ...

IF at this point, when people are being forced to give up their ICE vehicles, a fully-functional affordable and reliable on-call autonomous vehicle service - Autopods-4-U - becomes available nationwide, I could see many people grumbling but accepting the changes.

Until the first time one of these things arrives an hour late, full of litter, smelling of vomit and BO from the previous user...

Of course those of us with bicycles/tricycles/unicycles or with horse ability/experience will still be able to travel freely on our system of public highways - albeit by then probably monitored every step/pedal push of the way ...

 

[MrGrumpy]

If public transportation round my way was reliable and cheap I think I’d be convinced for work commute ! If our glorious leader Ms Sturgeon pushes through this cheap single price on the trains I maybe be persuaded ?! I’d happy stop that driving journey.
Funny the reason I joined this site was to share my interest of cycle commuting to work but right now I’m not sure I’ll ever do that again ! . Certainly not the whole way in and out !

 

[CXRAndy]

I can only hope that more and better transport technologies than mere battery powered rechargable metal boxes come 'on stream' very rapidly indeed.

What are you expecting, fusion propulsion, anti gravity, liquid metal shell?

Battery power is bloody good. Capable of unleashing near instant max current to permanent magnet motors with zero pollution whilst doing it.

15-30min rapid charging and vehicle is able to do it all again. There is nothing on the horizon, commercially viable alternatives- don't say hydrogen, it's just not worth all the costs and energy to make clean Hydrogen.

 

[MrGrumpy]

15-30 min rapid charging I’m led to believe is not good long term for batteries ? Is that incorrect? Batteries in general degrade , that’s a given ? At which point will an EV become somewhat scrap value ? A lot of us need some convincing here ? Right now it’s all new EVs I see and mostly company cars ?

 

[ClichéGuevara]

Is that special electricity only for EVs? No, but a small amount of waste from primary forest is used to generate power for the nation.

In other news petrol and diesel are still wished into existence so help yourself to guilt free motoring !

I've never owned a car so ....

Drax funded the Glasgow COP26.

"The Drax plant alone uses more wood than the UK produces every year"

Too many people also tend to see wood as better than oil or coal because the amount of CO₂ produced by burning a given unit is much lower for wood. But this overlooks the fact that you get considerably more heat from burning a unit of oil or coal than from wood. In other words, you have to burn much more wood to produce the same amount of heat, so the carbon emissions are actually much more than they appear. This leads people to greatly underestimate the amount of land we will need for trees if biomass power is to become a much bigger part of the energy mix.

The process also produces other noxious emissions, such as volatile organic compounds and oxides of nitrogen, as well as particulate matter higher than the former coal plant.

https://theconversation.com/carbon-...the-green-gamechanger-many-think-it-is-110475

 

[FishFright]

Drax funded the Glasgow COP26.

"The Drax plant alone uses more wood than the UK produces every year"

Too many people also tend to see wood as better than oil or coal because the amount of CO₂ produced by burning a given unit is much lower for wood. But this overlooks the fact that you get considerably more heat from burning a unit of oil or coal than from wood. In other words, you have to burn much more wood to produce the same amount of heat, so the carbon emissions are actually much more than they appear. This leads people to greatly underestimate the amount of land we will need for trees if biomass power is to become a much bigger part of the energy mix.

The process also produces other noxious emissions, such as volatile organic compounds and oxides of nitrogen, as well as particulate matter higher than the former coal plant.

https://theconversation.com/carbon-...the-green-gamechanger-many-think-it-is-110475

But it's fuel is renewable , unlike electric made with fossil fuels which are wished into existence and available on demand for ever ...

Context is everything.

 

[KnittyNorah]

What are you expecting, fusion propulsion, anti gravity, liquid metal shell?

Battery power is bloody good. Capable of unleashing near instant max current to permanent magnet motors with zero pollution whilst doing it.

15-30min rapid charging and vehicle is able to do it all again. There is nothing on the horizon, commercially viable alternatives- don't say hydrogen, it's just not worth all the costs and energy to make clean Hydrogen.

I have never said that battery power is anything other than 'bloody good' - IF and its a big IF - a user of said battery power is able to both obtain a suitable vehicle for their purposes (new or used) AND RECHARGE THE THING.

As a now-non-driver I have no eggs in this basket, and I am on the outside looking in, as it were. I am not inside either 'camp'; I see the problems of ICE vehicles, and I also see very clearly that problems - different problems, but problems nonetheless - arise with BEVs.

I have already said that I think a bigger, much bigger, barrier to widespread take-up of EVs will - especially as the second-hand market expands and prices drop - not be the cost of the vehicle, but access to charging facilities.

This appears to be borne out by comments made on several websites and blogs, and by the figures; an article in Parking Review indicates that about 60% of residents in major towns and cities have no access to off-street parking - this is actually a lower figure than I would have expected, but I come from the land of endless 2-up-and-2-down terraces - and thus no ability to charge 'at home'.
78% of all on-street chargers in the UK are in London, with an average of just 10 electric cars per on-street charger. In the southwest, there are 1,448 per on-street charger in the region. It is abundantly clear that the infrastructure for the use of EVs is inadequate in most of the country.

IF and I say IF - the govt gets its act together and installs, or enables the installation, of thousands and thousands of easily accessible, affordably priced chargers in every city, town and village in the land then maybe electromotive individual living-rooms on wheels will have a future.

Otherwise, another solution must be found which will be acceptable to a very, very large number of people, or as an earlier poster stated

considerable social unrest

might well ensue. I won't be here to see it, either, but I don't like the thought of it ... How about you?

 

[FishFright]

I wish I lived in a country where the pressing need for infrastructure updates are seen as a massive investment opportunity instead of a reason not to bother.

 

[fossyant]

My employer has started offering salary sacrifice for EV's. Now, where I park the ICE car somethimes, and mainly the pedal bike, we've 2 chargers on each of the 4 floors of the multi storey. But a number have been broken for some time (they were free) - this is coming from an EV owner who struggles to charge it at work, and is living locally in a hotel - home is 100's of miles away. There are new, and most likely additional charge points coming, operated by another company, but in the email, 'tarrif rates' would be published soon. 8 chargers aren't going to cut it, and I'm aware of only two other chargers, on street, locally. Now the chargers fitted are only fast chargers, estimated at 4 hours. There won't be enough spaces. I wonder if the charge rates will be worse than 'home' rates.

 

[ClichéGuevara]

But it's fuel is renewable , unlike electric made with fossil fuels which are wished into existence and available on demand for ever ...

Context is everything.

The context being that it isn't renewable at a meaningful rate, and it's overall impact is at least on par with coal.

 

[oldwheels]

Well there is the first wave of vehicles off the road

All very well to be sanctimonious but I have no drive and have to park opposite my house in an off street parking lane so I would need to run a cable across the street to charge a car.
In addition there is no realistic bus service and my walking is very restricted and cycling is not practical with balance problems and also living at the top of a very steep hill.
Am I to be confined to my house?

 

[Jenkins]

Yes, but mostly looking at fast chargers. If you look at Brighton for example they have around 200 lamp post chargers many of which are in residents only parking. The cost to use those was initially 26p per kwh, and has recently been increased to 39p per Kwh. That's on a par with a domestic electricity tariff. Yes, it's not as cheap as having your own charger because you can't go for the EV only option or use solar panels, but £32 for a full tank is still significantly cheaper than diesel and petrol.

Full tank for me = 11 gallons/50 litres of diesel @£1.73 per litre = £86.50 for 550+ miles
Full 'tank' of electricity = £32 for 250(?) miles or £70 for 550 miles so not that much cheaper