Are we being forced to go electric?

[jowwy]

Full tank for me = 11 gallons/50 litres of diesel @£1.73 per litre = £86.50 for 550+ miles
Full 'tank' of electricity = £32 for 250(?) miles or £70 for 550 miles so not that much cheaper

Unless you have solar, then its virtually* free

* cost of install and panels which is why i said virtually

 

[Gillstay]

What are you expecting, fusion propulsion, anti gravity, liquid metal shell?

Battery power is bloody good. Capable of unleashing near instant max current to permanent magnet motors with zero pollution whilst doing it.

15-30min rapid charging and vehicle is able to do it all again. There is nothing on the horizon, commercially viable alternatives- don't say hydrogen, it's just not worth all the costs and energy to make clean Hydrogen.

Will the making hydrogen from bacteria not be feasible then ?

 

[Jenkins]

Unless you have solar, then its virtually* free

* cost of install and panels which is why i said virtually

Which is why I was using the figures given by @icowden for public chargers, not home charging.

Diesel = approx 15.7 pence per mile, electric = 12.7 pence per mile

 

[CXRAndy]

Full tank for me = 11 gallons/50 litres of diesel @£1.73 per litre = £86.50 for 550+ miles
Full 'tank' of electricity = £32 for 250(?) miles or £70 for 550 miles so not that much cheaper

It's more like £16 on cheap overnight tariff. It was £7.50 for 500 miles before the global shitstorm

 

[CXRAndy]

Will the making hydrogen from bacteria not be feasible then ?

On what scale

 

[FishFright]

Will the making hydrogen from bacteria not be feasible then ?

The chemical bonds hydrogen makes are very strong . particularly with oxygen , which leads to a lot of energy being needed to break it apart.
So however we decide to produce hydrogen it will take considerably more energy to make it than it will ever return.
It's best to think it as another kind of battery and not as a fuel source.

 

[Jenkins]

It's more like £16 on cheap overnight tariff. It was £7.50 for 500 miles before the global shitstorm

I'm only using the figures quoted earlier for PUBLIC charging, not domestic. Can you imaging the outcry if diesel or petrol increased by 50% in price?

Yes, but mostly looking at fast chargers. If you look at Brighton for example they have around 200 lamp post chargers many of which are in residents only parking. The cost to use those was initially 26p per kwh, and has recently been increased to 39p per Kwh. That's on a par with a domestic electricity tariff. Yes, it's not as cheap as having your own charger because you can't go for the EV only option or use solar panels, but £32 for a full tank is still significantly cheaper than diesel and petrol.

 

[CXRAndy]

I'm only using the figures quoted earlier for PUBLIC charging, not domestic. Can you imaging the outcry if diesel or petrol increased by 50% in price?

Probably correct with longer journeys, but thankfully only a tiny proportion of journeys each day involve big miles.

Also factor that the first charge is most likely done overnight at home so only one higher priced rapid charging required.

I'm fortunate that I have lifetime free supercharging, so we pretty much take my car when going on long journeys, because it's free and a lovely car to travel big miles in

 

[jowwy]

I'm only using the figures quoted earlier for PUBLIC charging, not domestic. Can you imaging the outcry if diesel or petrol increased by 50% in price?

When i left the office pre-covid fuel was 1.22 a litre, last summer it was 201.9 at my local garage…..so not far off 80% increase……wasnt much of an out cry neither

 

[Jenkins]

When i left the office pre-covid fuel was 1.22 a litre, last summer it was 201.9 at my local garage…..so not far off 80% increase……wasnt much of an out cry neither

That's over a 2 to 2.5 year period and, at £2.02 per litre the figures (20.5 pence per mile) certainly swing in favour of electric, but I get the idea that the 50% increase in the price of electricity quoted was over a much shorter time - happy to be proved wrong.

 

[cougie uk]

I have never said that battery power is anything other than 'bloody good' - IF and its a big IF - a user of said battery power is able to both obtain a suitable vehicle for their purposes (new or used) AND RECHARGE THE THING.

As a now-non-driver I have no eggs in this basket, and I am on the outside looking in, as it were. I am not inside either 'camp'; I see the problems of ICE vehicles, and I also see very clearly that problems - different problems, but problems nonetheless - arise with BEVs.

I have already said that I think a bigger, much bigger, barrier to widespread take-up of EVs will - especially as the second-hand market expands and prices drop - not be the cost of the vehicle, but access to charging facilities.

This appears to be borne out by comments made on several websites and blogs, and by the figures; an article in Parking Review indicates that about 60% of residents in major towns and cities have no access to off-street parking - this is actually a lower figure than I would have expected, but I come from the land of endless 2-up-and-2-down terraces - and thus no ability to charge 'at home'.
78% of all on-street chargers in the UK are in London, with an average of just 10 electric cars per on-street charger. In the southwest, there are 1,448 per on-street charger in the region. It is abundantly clear that the infrastructure for the use of EVs is inadequate in most of the country.

IF and I say IF - the govt gets its act together and installs, or enables the installation, of thousands and thousands of easily accessible, affordably priced chargers in every city, town and village in the land then maybe electromotive individual living-rooms on wheels will have a future.

Otherwise, another solution must be found which will be acceptable to a very, very large number of people, or as an earlier poster stated

might well ensue. I won't be here to see it, either, but I don't like the thought of it ... How about you?

The thing is - you'd not put in a huge amount of charging points until you need them.

I'm sure people complained about the lack of petrol stations back in the day.

All you need to charge is an electric socket. It's not that difficult.

 

[classic33]

The thing is - you'd not put in a huge amount of charging points until you need them.

I'm sure people complained about the lack of petrol stations back in the day.

All you need to charge is an electric socket. It's not that difficult.

I doubt there were as many people wanting petrol, before petrol stations became plentiful.

Prior to that you bought what you needed in cans, filling the car from the cans.
Various places sold the cans, most notably chemists.

 

[Alex321]

I'm only using the figures quoted earlier for PUBLIC charging, not domestic. Can you imaging the outcry if diesel or petrol increased by 50% in price?

It did. Over a longer period, but part of that period was when we were doing so little driving we were only filling up every few months.

I don't recall all that much of an outcry.

 

[icowden]

I'm only using the figures quoted earlier for PUBLIC charging, not domestic. Can you imaging the outcry if diesel or petrol increased by 50% in price?

Why do we have to imagine it? In December 2020 Diesel was £1.20 a litre. By July it was £1.96 per litre. Petrol about £1.16 a litre and £1.91 a litre in the same time frame. The £1.50 to £2.00 bit was over less than 3 months.

 

[icowden]

...and because of the way they are wired, it's probable that most lighting columns won't be able to accommodate a charger at all, and that's before the question of metering the supply to it it is considered.

Have you told Brighton? They have 200 of them. How about Portsmouth ? They also have 50 lamp post chargers. What about that there London? 6000 lamp post chargers so far. So it does look like a significant number of lighting columns can be converted.