Jameshow
Veteran
Better to watch on the Tele tbh.
Are we being forced to go electric?
- Thread starter gavroche
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Better to watch on the Tele tbh.
ClichéGuevara
Legendary Member
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The need for a 1MW charger is going to limit its options.
At the moment they will be charged at the Depot. Pepsi has planning permission to install Tesla Megachargers. As with Tesla cars, Megachargers will start to appear as Semis are rolled out.
Don't need 1000kW charger, a 13a plug would do. Just desirable to be fully charged the next day
I expect a roll out at all the major trucking stops and major distribution hubs like Pepsi's in the near future. Tesla have from their car section, laid out an extensive supercharger network. Wouldn't think they would a half assed job for the semi's
Don't need 1000kW charger, a 13a plug would do. Just desirable to be fully charged the next day
I expect a roll out at all the major trucking stops and major distribution hubs like Pepsi's in the near future. Tesla have from their car section, laid out an extensive supercharger network. Wouldn't think they would a half assed job for the semi's
Plus they have already designed the chargers. So it's a matter of rolling them out where and when needed.
It's tacitly implied by the fact they are producing 6 new models of BEV
If they were wedded to Hydrogen, you might have thought 6 Hydrogen fuel cell cars to be announced
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gavroche
Getting old but not past it
- Location
- North Wales
I read today that, apparently, it is going more expensive to run an EV car now than a ICE. I am quite happy to stick to my petrol car and will probably get another ICE when the time comes as IV cars are not as clean as they want us to believe.
cougie uk
Guru
Where did you read that ?
Cost me £85 to fill my petrol car yesterday.
It would be less than £16 to charge my EV to do the same distance.
My EV will be able to use electric from my solar panels too (when they're fitted). Much cleaner than petrol.
On an economic basis, EVs cost about the same as petrol if you solely charge from rapid charging at sites away from home. Once you start charging at home they become vastly cheaper.
Then you. Talk about pollution too
Couple adding solar and cost of running, payback is much faster
Then you. Talk about pollution too
Couple adding solar and cost of running, payback is much faster
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AFAIK BMW have set up a small division exploring hydrogen. Based on some of the current iX platforms albeit heavily modified.
Can't remember where I read it but it was a recent article.
Again given BMW have and are releasing various BEV models, so I can only take that EV are the future
Until somebody invents a cheap way to make hydrogen, so much so that it will persuade users to switch from BEV
Its the VHS/Betamax rivalry, BEV being VHS. Swamped the market, that's the direction its going.
VHS released 1976, DVD released 1996. Lets see what the boffins will come up with in 20 years
Hydrogen has some advantages and thus is superficially attractive, but it has many downsides too. It has however been heavily pushed by vested interests who already have shipping and distribution networks for various other gas and liquid fuels.
First you've got to make it (extract it from other materials), this takes energy of course. The cleanest way to make it is by electrolysis from water using renewable energy. However most hydrogen available today is actually extracted from fossil fuels.
Then you have to put it into a portable form that can be moved around reasonably efficiently. This is either compressed to high pressures (so you need a heavy high pressure cylinder), and the compression takes more energy. Or it's supercooled so less pressure is needed to liquify. This cooling takes energy and also refrigeration equipment to transfer and store.
Then you have to get it into the car. So high pressure fuel lines and couplers at a filling station.
Finally of course your car needs a suitable storage tank. Cryogenic probably isn't the right way here, so you need high pressure: 350-700 bar, much more than scuba tanks, and they are dangerous enough if misused. There are other means such as interstitial storage, where the atoms are physically stored inside the atomic structure of other materials and chemical storage where it is reacted with another substance. This reaction needs to be easily reversible.
One massive issue with hydrogen storage is the fact the hydrogen atom is tiny. It's the smallest atom in the universe: one proton and one electron. So it tends to leak through just about anything; not just bypassing seals but physically permeating between the atoms/molecules of whatever you put it in! If you choose steel, then this can cause the steel to become brittle and crack.
Compared with BEVs, the issues are much bigger. For BEVs they are availability of lithium and other minerals, weight of the cells and potential thermal runaway with damaged cells. But a 700 bar pressurised hydrogen tank exploding in a car isn't a great prospect either!
It doesn't really stack up except for large commercial vehicles in organisations who can run much of their own infrastructure.
First you've got to make it (extract it from other materials), this takes energy of course. The cleanest way to make it is by electrolysis from water using renewable energy. However most hydrogen available today is actually extracted from fossil fuels.
Then you have to put it into a portable form that can be moved around reasonably efficiently. This is either compressed to high pressures (so you need a heavy high pressure cylinder), and the compression takes more energy. Or it's supercooled so less pressure is needed to liquify. This cooling takes energy and also refrigeration equipment to transfer and store.
Then you have to get it into the car. So high pressure fuel lines and couplers at a filling station.
Finally of course your car needs a suitable storage tank. Cryogenic probably isn't the right way here, so you need high pressure: 350-700 bar, much more than scuba tanks, and they are dangerous enough if misused. There are other means such as interstitial storage, where the atoms are physically stored inside the atomic structure of other materials and chemical storage where it is reacted with another substance. This reaction needs to be easily reversible.
One massive issue with hydrogen storage is the fact the hydrogen atom is tiny. It's the smallest atom in the universe: one proton and one electron. So it tends to leak through just about anything; not just bypassing seals but physically permeating between the atoms/molecules of whatever you put it in! If you choose steel, then this can cause the steel to become brittle and crack.
Compared with BEVs, the issues are much bigger. For BEVs they are availability of lithium and other minerals, weight of the cells and potential thermal runaway with damaged cells. But a 700 bar pressurised hydrogen tank exploding in a car isn't a great prospect either!
It doesn't really stack up except for large commercial vehicles in organisations who can run much of their own infrastructure.
With the cost of cars these days , I think it will be a while yet before I’m in an EV . Still cheaper running my big bus and extortionate VED over the year . I’d love to get rid but nothing close around at the moment .
EVs might be cheaper to run , however I wouldn’t jump in unless the maths works out!
As has been repeatedly said Tesla has the best charging network and that’s another reason to hold off.
Eh?
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