Any Runners On Here??

[Flying_Monkey]

Have also just started running in a much lighterweight shoe - Kinvara 4's. Really enjoying running in them.

Ah, now this is interesting. For several years I’ve been wearing old model New Balance 759s (or previous equivalent, 758s) because I was told that I underpronated slightly and needed some cushioning. I’ve also been wearing them in my normal shoe size of 6.5UK / 7.5US.

My current pair are getting old so on Friday I was in a big department store in Tokyo, and I was passing the sportswear section so I tool a look at the shoes. Nothing looked at all familiar, so I got talking to one of the sales guys. Unlike many of the clueless clerks I have encountered over the years, it turned out he was an ultramarathon runner so I decided to ask him about what shoes I should be using. He asked me about my running - what I do, how fast I run, what problems I have had etc. He then measured me very carefully and told me that first of all, I have been wearing shoes that are too big. He said that this is quite common and that you want a shoe that fits more glove-like if you are running at 4min/km speeds or faster. He also got me to run about a bit in a few pairs and then said that I don’t underpronate at all, in fact I slightly overpronate so that in fact I may have been making myself more likely to get injured.

But he didn’t advocate expensive stability control or any of that rubbish. Instead he made me try one some very lightweight Brooks Racer ST5 ‘flats’ (well, almost flats - that have a bare minimum of stability support) - oh, and in 5.5UK / 6.5US. And they were also just under 9000 Yen (about £60), which is way less than I was expecting to pay for a performance shoe. So I was highly sceptical. However, weirdly the shoes seemed to fit perfectly and while they were so light as to be hardly noticeable compared to my old NBs, they were definitely not ‘barefoot’ style. So I bought them. Today I went out on my usual 11k loop and it was a revelation. Okay, the weather was much cooler, so I am not going to attribute the much faster time whilst feeling much easier, to the shoes! In fact I just didn’t notice the shoes at all. And nothing hurt or twinged. And that is perfect. Obviously I’ll have to run in them for a while before I come to any definitive conclusions, but it does seem I’ve been wearing the wrong shoes for a long time…

 

[Ghost Donkey]

Ah, now this is interesting. For several years I’ve been wearing old model New Balance 759s (or previous equivalent, 758s) because I was told that I underpronated slightly and needed some cushioning. I’ve also been wearing them in my normal shoe size of 6.5UK / 7.5US.

My current pair are getting old so on Friday I was in a big department store in Tokyo, and I was passing the sportswear section so I tool a look at the shoes. Nothing looked at all familiar, so I got talking to one of the sales guys. Unlike many of the clueless clerks I have encountered over the years, it turned out he was an ultramarathon runner so I decided to ask him about what shoes I should be using. He asked me about my running - what I do, how fast I run, what problems I have had etc. He then measured me very carefully and told me that first of all, I have been wearing shoes that are too big. He said that this is quite common and that you want a shoe that fits more glove-like if you are running at 4min/km speeds or faster. He also got me to run about a bit in a few pairs and then said that I don’t underpronate at all, in fact I slightly overpronate so that in fact I may have been making myself more likely to get injured.

But he didn’t advocate expensive stability control or any of that rubbish. Instead he made me try one some very lightweight Brooks Racer ST5 ‘flats’ (well, almost flats - that have a bare minimum of stability support) - oh, and in 5.5UK / 6.5US. And they were also just under 9000 Yen (about £60), which is way less than I was expecting to pay for a performance shoe. So I was highly sceptical. However, weirdly the shoes seemed to fit perfectly and while they were so light as to be hardly noticeable compared to my old NBs, they were definitely not ‘barefoot’ style. So I bought them. Today I went out on my usual 11k loop and it was a revelation. Okay, the weather was much cooler, so I am not going to attribute the much faster time whilst feeling much easier, to the shoes! In fact I just didn’t notice the shoes at all. And nothing hurt or twinged. And that is perfect. Obviously I’ll have to run in them for a while before I come to any definitive conclusions, but it does seem I’ve been wearing the wrong shoes for a long time…

This is awesome . Knowledgeable staff keep customers coming back. I never got on with running for years and always had problems with shin and quad pain if I upped the mileage. I was covering more height vertically than I was distance horizontally in my "running" stride. A change of trainers to lightweight neutral and the running technique that came with it has made a massive difference to me. I could never run much before so there was little adaptation required. Now I love running and have stuck with my new style of trainer for years.

 

[Ghost Donkey]

I'm injured (from being a muppet rather than anything running related) so had to withdraw from the Yorkshireman. The organisers told me I could carry the entry forward to another event rather than miss out which makes them super stars in my book. Looking at Withins as a "not really trained for most of the year due to renovating my house" event to do when visiting family back home. Let's see if I can do as badly as last year! Family accommodation depending. Half marathon two weeks before it to see if everything still works.

 

[User169]

But he didn’t advocate expensive stability control or any of that rubbish. Instead he made me try one some very lightweight Brooks Racer ST5 ‘flats’ (well, almost flats - that have a bare minimum of stability support) - oh, and in 5.5UK / 6.5US. And they were also just under 9000 Yen (about £60), which is way less than I was expecting to pay for a performance shoe. So I was highly sceptical. However, weirdly the shoes seemed to fit perfectly and while they were so light as to be hardly noticeable compared to my old NBs, they were definitely not ‘barefoot’ style. So I bought them. Today I went out on my usual 11k loop and it was a revelation. Okay, the weather was much cooler, so I am not going to attribute the much faster time whilst feeling much easier, to the shoes! In fact I just didn’t notice the shoes at all. And nothing hurt or twinged. And that is perfect. Obviously I’ll have to run in them for a while before I come to any definitive conclusions, but it does seem I’ve been wearing the wrong shoes for a long time…

i've done a bit more running in the Kinvaras now. With an inch of rubber at the heel, they're not a minimalist shoe, but lightweight and only 4mm heel to toe drop. Only problem is a high heel collar. I ran 10km without socks last night and came back with bleeding achilles where they'd rubbed: socks from now on.

Not sure if they're making me run faster, but they do seem to help getting to a more midfoot strike, and I have managed to get closer to my 2013 targets. Lose a few kgs and I should be in business!

 

[Flying_Monkey]

i've done a bit more running in the Kinvaras now. With an inch of rubber at the heel, they're not a minimalist shoe, but lightweight and only 4mm heel to toe drop. Only problem is a high heel collar. I ran 10km without socks last night and came back with bleeding achilles where they'd rubbed: socks from now on.

I had a look at them and they are very different from my new ones. The ST5s have a lot less cushioning both fore and rear, but actually more of a drop between heel and forefoot (despite the fact that a lot of people refer to them as 'flats'). As they say, different strokes for different folks... I'm really enjoying running in them.

It's our track 5k time trial tonight, and as it is a bit less humid than last month - it was 80% whereas today is just over 40%, albeit still very warm at 31 degr. C, although it will have dropped to about 25 by the time we start - so I am aiming to get somewhere nearer 19:30 or better. Unfortunately I left my watch at home, so I'll have to run by feel...

 

[Flying_Monkey]

19.36, woo hoo!

 

[User169]

19.36, woo hoo!

Nice one, FM. And the weekly beer report?!

 

[Flying_Monkey]

Nice one, FM. And the weekly beer report?!

There will be a lot less of that if I am going to get faster, I'm sorry to say.

 

[Flying_Monkey]

Ran 15km this morning and then signed up for 2 half marathons in November...

 

[User169]

14km for me yesterday: was aiming for under 1:05, but could only manage 1:06. Still, the injury I had seems to be on the mend and I don't seem to have acquired any new problems.

One bloke turned up and ran bare foot - he didn't look at all comfortable.

 

[smutchin]

Just got back from a trip to Dorset, camping on the coast near Bridport. Took my running gear with me, of course - would have liked to take the bike as well, but it wasn't practical, unfortunately.

From where we pitched our tent, we had a nice view across a little valley with a tasty looking hill on the other side, so I made that my key target for my morning runs. After some investigation, I worked out that the hill was Thorncombe Beacon, which isn't quite the highest point on that stretch of coast, but is high enough to constitute a decent workout (I did briefly get the idea in my head that it was Golden Cap, which is in fact the highest point on the south coast, but that's a couple of miles further along). From the campsite, it's a short, steep drop to the beach, then a steady climb up the other side with a nasty steep kick in the final couple of hundred metres to the top. About 1.8km from site to summit. At the start of the week, it was taking me about 13.5 minutes to get to the top, but by the end of the week I managed to get my time down to 12.49. Pretty happy with that.

Shame I didn't really get the chance to do any proper long runs - would have been nice to have a go at Golden Cap. Still, I enjoyed what I did. Here are some stats on Strava, if anyone's interested:
http://www.strava.com/activities/79250115 - my 7.6km run route
http://www.strava.com/activities/79250084/segments/1605231828 - the Thorncombe Beacon climb as a Strava segment

I also made a little trip to Weymouth on Saturday to take part in the inaugural Weymouth Parkrun, which was fun.

 

[rich p]

i've done a bit more running in the Kinvaras now. With an inch of rubber at the heel, they're not a minimalist shoe, but lightweight and only 4mm heel to toe drop. Only problem is a high heel collar. I ran 10km without socks last night and came back with bleeding achilles where they'd rubbed: socks from now on.

Not sure if they're making me run faster, but they do seem to help getting to a more midfoot strike, and I have managed to get closer to my 2013 targets. Lose a few kgs and I should be in business!

I'm an ex-runner DP, and my wife is an ex-sports physio and runner. She regularly treated runners with Achilles problems caused by a high heel tab. She used to recommend to them, (and indeed did to my and her shoes)' carefully unstitching the top of the tab, cutting out a centimetre section of the useless padding therein and re-stitching.

 

[User169]

I'm an ex-runner DP, and my wife is an ex-sports physio and runner. She regularly treated runners with Achilles problems caused by a high heel tab. She used to recommend to them, (and indeed did to my and her shoes)' carefully unstitching the top of the tab, cutting out a centimetre section of the useless padding therein and re-stitching.

Thanks, Rich. I'll give that a go if socks don't sort the problem.

 

[Flying_Monkey]

I'm an ex-runner DP, and my wife is an ex-sports physio and runner. She regularly treated runners with Achilles problems caused by a high heel tab. She used to recommend to them, (and indeed did to my and her shoes)' carefully unstitching the top of the tab, cutting out a centimetre section of the useless padding therein and re-stitching.

Sounds interesting, but aren't Achilles problems mainly down to the height of the sole at the heal and particularly the drop from heal to forefoot? At least that's what the barefoot and minimalist people argue. I'd be interested to know what your wife thinks.

 

[rich p]

Sounds interesting, but aren't Achilles problems mainly down to the height of the sole at the heal and particularly the drop from heal to forefoot? At least that's what the barefoot and minimalist people argue. I'd be interested to know what your wife thinks.

I'm sure those could also contribute or cause Achilles problems too but this technique proved itself quickly beneficial in practice.
I know that a lot of classy runners in my old club just took a pair of scissors to the heel tab. It does nothing useful and is probably there to look cool for kids. I can't really ask my wife for reasons too complicated to go into here but I assume the constant abrasion of a hard tab is a bad thing in itself, and maybe changes the leverage point of the tendon. Speculation that you could equally do, I realise!
A quick Google found this in which the issue is discussed and one contributor mentions Saucony Kinvara
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=4030581
FWIW, I still wear running shoes for leisure, as they are so comfortable, and I'm onto the 10th incarnation of Brooks Addiction which have never given me a problem even when I ran!