21/10/13 - female cyclist down in Camden - Tipper lorry

[buggi]

But both should be talking to the driver. Is this really so very difficult?

i never said i didn't, in fact i am a key person at work for getting them to implement driver training if you had bothered to read my posts, but this is exactly my point about "process safety". If you put as many things in place as possible to help avoid it, then when one process fails (ie driver error) hopefully the other process prevents it (ie cyclist decision to wait behind). Its about doing everything possible, not about victim blaming or shifting focus

 

[glasgowcyclist]

But both should be talking to the driver. Is this really so very difficult?

When I witness this muppetry, it's far more expedient to alert the cyclist than hope that the driver, high in his cab, might hear me over the din of his engine.

And I didn't say that the road safety education should exclude the driver.

GC

 

[Crankarm]

You don't seem to be getting this, if we all do the job for them perfectly and just concede the road in every conflict situation, none of those things will ever be put in place because the need will have evaporated.

I get the impression you don't cycle that much or are you being deliberately obtuse?

 

[Crankarm]

If you have read any of the equivalent threads on this subject before you would know that I do. I know what I am doing though, the rhythms of the lights etc, so I know when to and when not to. What I don't need is any patronising so called educating thanks very much.

Well it's your funeral and if you barged past me and got squished I would say it was your own fault and the driver was totally blameless. If you can't anticipate your own stupidity then at least be grateful that there are some around you that can. They MIGHT save your life.

 

[Crankarm]

Wrt to this current collision we don't have the full facts so may be it is better not to speculate on what may or may not have happened, but to hope only that the injured cyclist pulls through and makes as full a recovery as possible.

 

[Crankarm]

Which part of "I know what I am doing" did you not understand?

The irresponsible always say that until what ever high risk dubious activity they are carrying out claims them. Are you trying for a Darwin Award? Do you have kids yet? If not you could be a real contender for a Darwin Award along with all other muppets who ride up the confined space of the nearside of large vehicles as they move off or begin to turn. It is a posthumous award so I shall collect it on your behalf if that is ok?

 

[Crankarm]

On the one hand I think, well, clearly cyclists can get into trouble scooting up alongside large vehicles. It's hard to fault you if you may be saving their life. On the other hand, if you were blocking me I'd just go around you if I could. I'd try not to do it in an impolitely barge-y kind of way though!





Leaflets are OK. I might even take one from you, to scribble my own suggestions about what to look out for:
Are there railings or other impediments to pedestrianising myself if it becomes necessary? How close to the kerb is the vehicle? Can it turn left? Can it turn at all? What is the situation at the front? At what stage is the traffic light? When it turns green can they move, and if so, how fast are they likely to? Are there other cyclists about and what are they up to? Can I safely get past this guy trying to block me or will he knock me over with his concerned glare? Etc. All done with a Terminator-type information overlay complete with GPS, vectors, probabilities and windspeed, of course.

If you have a hard and fast rule to NEVER NEVER NEVER (as the CC guide to commuting puts it) go up the near side of large vehicles, I certainly respect that, but for my own part, constantly figuring all this stuff out is part of what makes city cycling (much as I hate to use this word given the sad context) fun.

As I already replied to Adrian, it's your funeral and I would be a witness for the driver.

 

[Crankarm]

Except I am not undertaking any dubious or high risk activity at all. I am merely engaging in that most innocent of practices, riding a bike. The dubious and risky is all other people's, bringing heavy and dangerous machinery into a public arena.
I am not going to answer the rest of it. I shall put that down to your recent experience.

Tell me you are being obtuse with nothing better to do on a sunday the first sunday the clocks have gone back signifying the start of the dark season. You don't seriously practice what you preach do you as frankly you do write some rubbish?

 

[dellzeqq]

so - to recap

a woman is hit by a truck. There's a mix of circumstances, but it appears that she did not undertake. Notwithstanding this, another person, knowing nothing about the circumstances of cyclists' deaths in London, or that it is the safest place to cycle in the UK, declares that she will come 120 miles south to tell people what not to do.

At the very least it'll be entertaining. If brief. Just let us know.

 

[dellzeqq]

Tell me you are being obtuse with nothing better to do on a sunday the first sunday the clocks have gone back signifying the start of the dark season. You don't seriously practice what you preach do you as frankly you do write some rubbish?

well, I've had the pleasure of commuting with Adrian, and I reckon that he's pretty good at it. Ever ridden a bike yourself?

 

[glasgowcyclist]

Carry something to throw at the windows to attract their attention

Is that what you would do?

GC

 

[Crankarm]

Bus drivers in London get training that is specific to bicycles, and that's backed up by a policy that says that they shouldn't put us in harms way. Some HGV drivers (mostly those working for local authorities) get the same training. Some construction firms have their own training schemes - the shining example being Cemex.

Now, as it goes I had to stand at the front of the bus all the way from Borough High Street to Brixton the other day. The care taken by the driver was extraordinary - he looked at the mirrors on both sides every few seconds. I don't think that happens by accident. I don't think the Cemex drivers take care by accident, or, even the Asda drivers that pass the FNRttC on the way out to the Dartford Crossing. Someone has taken the time to say 'this is what you have to look out for'.

And how do you think that the drivers of these companies and organisations have reached this high level of awareness towards cyclists? Because people like Buggi have kept on campaigning to get them trained and to give training to their staff so that all cyclists and other vulnerable road users will be a lot safer on the roads. Instead of being so critical and dismissive of Buggi why are you not grateful that there are people out there who are prepared to give up their time to educate and inform drivers and cyclists of such dangers so the roads are safer for everyone including you to use meaning fewer cyclists are killed or seriously injured. What is your input to reducing the high incidence of cyclists being in collision with large vehicles resulting in serious or fatal injuries to cyclists?

 

[anothersam]

The irresponsible always say that until what ever high risk dubious activity they are carrying out claims them. Are you trying for a Darwin Award? Do you have kids yet? If not you could be a real contender for a Darwin Award along with all other muppets who ride up the confined space of the nearside of large vehicles as they move off or begin to turn. It is a posthumous award so I shall collect it on your behalf if that is ok?

 

[MattyKo]

Cemex are good i deliver to alot of there concrete sites in and around TV and they do seem to take H&S and stuff more seriously than most. It may be just coincidence and i have no facts at all other than personal experience in that Cemex Lafarge Tarmac employ owner drivers as appose to just staff to drive. Ive worked with both and owner drivers come across like they care alot more than just a driver maybe its a financial thing i dont know.

I maybe wrong however I believe it to be a cement delivery firms that I shall be referring to.

From recollection

A mother following the death of her daughter cyclist by a HGV vehicle in the London area purchased shares in the company to permit her to attend the Annual General Meeting (AGM). During the AGM she stood up and told the attendees' her story and how her daughter was killed by one of their firms delivery vehicles (HGV) whilst the lorry was undertaking a left turn.

The directors' acknowledged the consequences of one of their vehicles' errors upon this mother and her family. The effort this mother took to highlight the issue, to the firm. The issues were surrounding the lack of visibility cyclists posed to the HGV driver when in close proximity to HGV vehicles. The firm invested in training their drivers and fitted additional mirrors to the fleet of delivery vehicles.

Sorry to interrupt and reply so late after your initial posting.

 

[buggi]

Going back to your earlier post, you were quite specific that you wanted to lecture London cyclists, with no mention of lorry drivers at all. Perhaps you could have made yourself clearer then.

at what point did i say lecture? just as you misinterpret my posts or choose to use only the bits you want, you also take them out of the context of conversation and add words in