2021 Brompton C-Line Explore

[rogerzilla]

Is there any solvent which will help by dissolving the 'glue', at least to some extent?

Not that I know of. It's a pulling, snapping, and scraping kind of job.

Unibond Repair Extreme glue (used to be called Extreme Power Glue) is good for the new bush.

 

[Gunk]

Is there any solvent which will help by dissolving the 'glue', at least to some extent?

Super Glue remover would probably help the process

 

[Gunk]

I have one new Marathon Racer left, however when the bike needs another tyre I think I'll fit one of the Contis I picked up a while ago for a good price (assuming they're legit) as I'm tempted to see if these accommodate council tubeless any better, while generally they seem to be better-regarded than the Racers - about which I have mixed feelings myself..

I‘ve always used Racers, much easier to fit, and for reason they regularly pop up on ebay for around £25 for a pair usually removed from a new bike.

There is a good pair of full fat Marathons on FB MP in Bicester for around £25, I was going to buy them for £20 but didn’t need them in the end.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/410145122057904/

 

[wafter]

The shim is designed to be a wearing part, therefore replacing it from time to time is normal.

Roughing up the seatpost means faster wearing of the shim. Nevertheless I decided to go that way and the first approach with the rough side of a kitchen sponge was already successful: no slipping anymore and the thread of the bolt protrudes roughly 2.5mm, so it's not that tight.
Perhaps that is helpful for you.

E.

Indeed; I understand that. What irritates me is that it's worn so quickly; and presumably only because it's got full of grit thanks to the crap front mudflap and less-than-great frame design at the bottom bracket.

To be honest I doubt making the surface a bit rougher would affect wear rate much; certainly compared to being packed with the abrasive past thrown up off the road by the front wheel.

Good work with yours - I envy the amount of life it seemingly has left in it!

Get Warlands to pop a new inset in, had mine done a few years ago (my old Mk2) the process involves reaming the seat tube and gluing in a new insert.

I certainly could, however that fails to appeal on many levels as it sounds quite invasive and repeated poor experiences have left me with a deep reluctance to trust others with stuff I value.

I have the reaming tool and a supply of seatpost bushes. The hard part is breaking out the old bush.

Those left-hand pedal bearings don't last long as it's a single-row bearing loaded off-axis. You can file away the lip, knock out the bearing and fit the best 6203-2RS bearing you can buy. It is a tight interference fit and you can add high strength bearing retainer. Or pay £55 for a new pedal.

Lucky you

How long do you reckon the bush "should" last? It sounds like a pretty unpleasant procedure to get the old one out and certainly not one I'd want to entertain regularly.

Thanks for the thought on the pedal too; it's a crap design and I'm all for making the most of what I have.. however I'm not sure I'd trust a non-mechanical means of retention to hold the pedal on. All it would have taken was a bloody circlip

Is there any solvent which will help by dissolving the 'glue', at least to some extent?

I'd be very wary of applying anything like this incase it affects the frame's finish..

I‘ve always used Racers, much easier to fit, and for reason they regularly pop up on ebay for around £25 for a pair usually removed from a new bike.

There is a good pair of full fat Marathons on FB MP in Bicester for around £25, I was going to buy them for £20 but didn’t need them in the end.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/410145122057904/

Yes, I've typically gravitated towards these since they're what came with the bike and pretty cheap. That said the Contis seem well regarded and I guess it says something about the cost / quality that they're fitted to the more expensive offerings. I fitted one to the rear this morning as it happens and it seems to ride more nicely than the Racer that came off, although that was shafted and of course the difference might be in my head..

Thanks for the heads-up about the Marathons; I think I've seen them before and considered snapping them up.. however I'm not keen on the usual implications of using them. It does seem that I might benefit from them though, as I suspect they'd be better protected against the cuts from glass / flint that I seem to encounter with depressing regularity..




Yesterday I elected to try and do something about the seatpost issue and ended up lining the top and bottom of the 65mm deep placcy insert with a single layer of masking tape - cut from a 48mm roll so around 24mm depth at each end of the insert.

The tape was 0.14mm thick and once fitted the seatpost was secure with around 2.4mm clamp bolt protrusion. So far it's done around 14 miles over a couple of rides without any movement, which is promising

Another unforseen advantage is the post is now a tighter fit when the clamp is fully slackened off; the sliding action feels much more refined while lateral slop has been minimised and his almost preventing contact between the bottom of the post and the frame. Hopefully this will minimise both damage the surface finish at the bottom of the seatpost tube as well as the passage of grit from inside the base of the frame's seatpost tube up into the clamp assembly; which of course has caused / massively contributed towards the wear issue in the first place.

At worst I figured this could be a reasonable stop-gap; even if I was enthusiastic about having the insert replaced I won't get the opportunity for a couple of weeks and the slipping was really bloody irritating. So far the tape seems to be holding up well; and even if it doesn't last this might at least serve as a proof of concept for use of something more resileant...

 

[Fastpedaller]

All that said my pessimism about others working on my gear is the result of largely of experience; I can count the times I've been 100% happy with someone else's service on my possessions on one finger.

I feel your pain. My long ramblings follow....... I even dislike taking my car (kit car I assembled in 2009) for MOT. Over the years at MOT my cars have suffered:-
A 'professional' tester flinging the door open as far as he could and shouting 'the Fing doors on this thing are pants' because he was too inflexible (and about 20 years young than me) Granted they don't open to 90 degrees, but they are normal size doors (they use Ford Fiesta door cards) with Reliant Scimitar hinges, so nothing spectacularly small. Same guy broke the switch panel on the RH side of the dash by putting his hand on it when he got out - unfortunately, I didn't notice until I was 100 yards away after I'd left. The year before (different car) the other tester leant with all his might on the gear lever when trying to engage reverse, instead of asking - all it needed was the lever pushing down when moving in the direction shown on the gearknob (Ford type 9 gearbox). He snapped the lever off at its base. Once I'd unbolted the bits, he MIG welded them together. Two days later it broke again, as the weld penetration was only 2mm. I welded it properly with my arc welder and it's lasted years. Needless to say I don't take cars to that garage any more. Next garage, when I got the MOT done last year I said "Please don't drop the bonnet down, as it's glassfibre, so unlike a metal one it needs pressing down, as it won't bend but could crack if dropped". What did he do? dropped it from about 12 inches. I think it's their 'we'll show we have the power' kick. Oh, sorry I forgot, but I've always been told to drop bonnets so they don't get dented". I took my GRP monocoque car for front tyres, guy rolled a jack under and I stopped him. "you can't jack it there, that's the nosecone" he says "It'll be alright" . I explain it's a GRP monocoque, so no steel chassis, and he says "yeah I've jacked Westfield kit cars, it's ok". I explain a Westfield has a steel chassis, got in the car and went elsewhere. Where we lived in Essex there was a tyre place which I subsequently used - It was the scruffiest looking place, but the first time I went there he said " nice alloys, do you want to loosen them by hand as I won't be using the air tool on them. My kind of place.
Unfrotunately it seems most places do not appreciate taking care or listening to an explanation of what's expected.
And.... Back to the Brompton......If I wanted the sleeve on my Brompton replaced I'd buy an adjustable reamer or have to watch every move of someone doing the job.

 

[rogerzilla]

I know someone else has carefully opened up the lip on the folding pedal and folded it back after replacing the bearing. My guess it this can only be done once, and the lip would crack if you tried a second bearing replacement.

There is just about room to fit a large round washer with countersunk screws as a removable mechanical retainer. It has to be thinner than the washer between the pedal and crank, and the centre hole must be larger than that washer. A tall order. There are grades of Loctite that need 200 deg C to release them, so they should be perfectly secure.

Bearing wear is hard to detect in these pedals until you remove it and feel how graunchy the bearing is. Otherwise, it is masked by the clearance between the pedal bolt and the inner race. It truly is a bad design all round.

 

[wafter]

I have the reaming tool and a supply of seatpost bushes. The hard part is breaking out the old bush.

Good work - can you recommend anywhere to source the bush? The reamers seem freely available, the boss that goes inside to splay out the bush not so much, the bush itself offered in very few places with those that do restricting it to "supply and fit"..

I feel your pain. My long ramblings follow....... I even dislike taking my car (kit car I assembled in 2009) for MOT. Over the years at MOT my cars have suffered:-
A 'professional' tester flinging the door open as far as he could and shouting 'the Fing doors on this thing are pants' because he was too inflexible (and about 20 years young than me) Granted they don't open to 90 degrees, but they are normal size doors (they use Ford Fiesta door cards) with Reliant Scimitar hinges, so nothing spectacularly small. Same guy broke the switch panel on the RH side of the dash by putting his hand on it when he got out - unfortunately, I didn't notice until I was 100 yards away after I'd left. The year before (different car) the other tester leant with all his might on the gear lever when trying to engage reverse, instead of asking - all it needed was the lever pushing down when moving in the direction shown on the gearknob (Ford type 9 gearbox). He snapped the lever off at its base. Once I'd unbolted the bits, he MIG welded them together. Two days later it broke again, as the weld penetration was only 2mm. I welded it properly with my arc welder and it's lasted years. Needless to say I don't take cars to that garage any more. Next garage, when I got the MOT done last year I said "Please don't drop the bonnet down, as it's glassfibre, so unlike a metal one it needs pressing down, as it won't bend but could crack if dropped". What did he do? dropped it from about 12 inches. I think it's their 'we'll show we have the power' kick. Oh, sorry I forgot, but I've always been told to drop bonnets so they don't get dented". I took my GRP monocoque car for front tyres, guy rolled a jack under and I stopped him. "you can't jack it there, that's the nosecone" he says "It'll be alright" . I explain it's a GRP monocoque, so no steel chassis, and he says "yeah I've jacked Westfield kit cars, it's ok". I explain a Westfield has a steel chassis, got in the car and went elsewhere. Where we lived in Essex there was a tyre place which I subsequently used - It was the scruffiest looking place, but the first time I went there he said " nice alloys, do you want to loosen them by hand as I won't be using the air tool on them. My kind of place.
Unfrotunately it seems most places do not appreciate taking care or listening to an explanation of what's expected.
And.... Back to the Brompton......If I wanted the sleeve on my Brompton replaced I'd buy an adjustable reamer or have to watch every move of someone doing the job.

Indeed, sadly I can relate to all of that although you do seem to have suffered some pretty extreme examples

I'm tempted to do the same with the seatpost tube; although it's not the most straightforward of processes and requires a fair bit of tooling it seems.

I know someone else has carefully opened up the lip on the folding pedal and folded it back after replacing the bearing. My guess it this can only be done once, and the lip would crack if you tried a second bearing replacement.

There is just about room to fit a large round washer with countersunk screws as a removable mechanical retainer. It has to be thinner than the washer between the pedal and crank, and the centre hole must be larger than that washer. A tall order. There are grades of Loctite that need 200 deg C to release them, so they should be perfectly secure.

Bearing wear is hard to detect in these pedals until you remove it and feel how graunchy the bearing is. Otherwise, it is masked by the clearance between the pedal bolt and the inner race. It truly is a bad design all round.

Gah, as tight as I am that all still makes me pucker up somewhat.. I appreciate what you're saying about retaining compound and you're no doubt right... that said I'd still far rather have a mechanical means of retention in such a safety-critical area!


So.... this week on "my bicycle is a shonky, petulant little shitbag"...

The bike has really excelled itself in terms of grief this week; although I've not been blameless in this either.

Monday saw the first commute post-tyre-swappage. The less-shafted item that ended up on the rear turned out to be more damaged than anticipated; again the result of a signfiicant cut from flint or glass.

After repeatedly squashing the rear mudguard brakets inward to try and get more clearance with the tyre, I gave up and just tried to ignore the rythmic thrum of the slight bulge rubbing on the guard bracket. What I couldn't ignore was the sound of escaping air after the innertube had herneated through the thin boot inside and punctured.

It was a nice morning and I was going to be late regardless, so I patched the tube on the tow path and replaced the tyre with a new folding Continental Contact Urban my anxiety had thoughtfully popped into the bag that morning.

All seemed well until later in the day when I noticed the rear tyre was flat. The tube came out, was inflated and submerged in an effort to find the leak.. which I couldn't. It went back on the bike and has treated me to various flavours of deflation throughout the rest of the week.

Since the Schwalbe Marathon Racer that came off was rigid, packaging was less straightforward than with the Conti. "Tonight Matthew, I'm going to be a Land Rover":

Monday's journey home also brought to my attention that the masking tape I'd lashed into the seatpost bush in an effort to stop the post slipping had slowly disintegrated after about 25 miles. The reluctance of the resultant tacky mess in allowing the seatpost to move duping me into believing that all remained well when tugging it upward to check for slippage..

Needing the bike for work the next day I toiled into the night to sort something else out; frame protection tape appearing to be the least-worst option on hand. Found the seatpost bush to be loose in the frame, pulled it out to find that the superglue holding it in had pulled the powder coat off the inside of the frame, allowing it to rust

Killed the rust with phosphoric acid before cleaning and greasing in a limp effort towards preventing more corrosion in the short term..

The bush / sleeve is pretty shafted but was cleaned up and refitted with some strips of frame tape inside..

The tube was tight but seemingly useable, however the next morning this rapidly turned out not to be the case as the post began slipping fairly early into the ride; meaning the last 4-5 miles were done exclusively out of the saddle... which was fun.

Once at work it was all stripped and cleaned again, and 1.5 turns of chav-fuel energy drink can fitted as a floating shim, which just about does the job but still slips.


Not sure where to go from here tbh.. the replacement process look pretty brutal on Brompton's website, with plenty of opportunities for damage. As such I don't really want to sub the job out as I can probably do a better job myself just by taking my time and giving a toss.. however the tools are expensive and the parts arguably not available.

While unlike the other areas of the bike I've criticised in the past there seems no obviously superior alternative to this situation.. although it's yet another disappointment. I think this, in conjunction with the hinge issue has pushed me closer to perceiving the bike as disposible work hack rather than something to be cherished for many years, which is a shame

 

[Gunk]

I really don’t understand your reluctance to just take it to Waylands (who are a Brompton approved dealer) and get them to fit a new seat post sleeve, can’t be worse than trying to pack it out with Gaffer tape.

 

[wafter]

I really don’t understand your reluctance to just take it to Waylands (who are a Brompton approved dealer) and get them to fit a new seat post sleeve, can’t be worse than trying to pack it out with Gaffer tape.

Because short term I have another week of riding before I can get it to Warlands, while longer-term experience has taught me not to trust anyone to do anything correctly / to a decent standard.

Warlands are doing the frame hinge under warranty (which is very good of them); and is a necessity as I want this on record with Brompton in case if gives issues again in future (so it needs to go through a dealer).

Anything I can reasonably do myself, I'll do myself.

 

[EltonFrog]

Because short term I have another week of riding before I can get it to Warlands, while longer-term experience has taught me not to trust anyone to do anything correctly / to a decent standard.

Warlands are doing the frame hinge under warranty (which is very good of them); and is a necessity as I want this on record with Brompton in case if gives issues again in future (so it needs to go through a dealer).

Anything I can reasonably do myself, I'll do myself.

But why bother with faff and stress of it? If I have understood your problem correctly, you will need to purchase tools that you will only use once.
If you get Warlands to do it they will have to guarantee the work so that I hope put you at ease.

 

[rogerzilla]

There are actually two types of bush in existence - pre-reamed and normal. Years ago I fitted a pre-reamed one after a respray and it works perfectly. However, other people have found it less satisfactory. My bike has the old Brompton Ti blue/black post and it no doubt has much higher friction than a chromed steel post.

If you want to come to Swindon and DIY using the Brompton tool for the price of the bush you can. I think they were about a fiver each and I bought a few. You will need glue (see above for my recommendation).

They recommend using an old Brompton seatpost to knock out the worn bush from below. This is something owners probably don't have, so it's a case of breaking it inwards.

https://www.brompton.com/support/bikes/c-line/bromptonacademy

 

[Gunk]

while longer-term experience has taught me not to trust anyone to do anything correctly / to a decent standard.

It’s not a hugely complicated job for a dealer and they do loads of them, as I said before they did mine a few years ago without any fuss.

 

[EltonFrog]

It’s not a hugely complicated job for a dealer and they do loads of them, as I said before they did mine a few years ago without any fuss.

How much does it cost?

 

[FrankCrank]

Blimey, seeing all this makes me glad my folder has a more simple hinge

Mind you, the bike don't fold very small - good luck with it all Wafty.

 

[Gunk]

How much does it cost?

I am sure it was around £50 plus the sleeve