EltonFrog
Legendary Member
Seems reasonable, I don’t know how much the tooling costs, but I suspect more than that.
2021 Brompton C-Line Explore
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- Start date
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Seems reasonable, I don’t know how much the tooling costs, but I suspect more than that.
rogerzilla
Legendary Member
The tool cost me £40 unused!
Thanks - I'd be willing to try a pre-reamed insert if I could get my hands on one, but they don't seem available anywhere as a stand-alone item.
Ta muchly for the offer of using your gear; not sure how I want to go currently but I'll keep it in mind
I had a look at the process and it doesn't look particularly pleasant - probably a toss-up on the quality of outcome between inexperienced me treading very carefully and someone with more experience but less OCD..
I've not updated this thread for a while since the ownership experience has taken a bit of a nosedive over past months thanks largely to the seatpost and hinge issues...
A while ago the frame hinge pin was kindly sorted by Warlands under warranty; their position was that it wasn't "normal wear" and they'd never seen one fail in that way before.
However, despite my having sent Brompton a couple of videos of the defect they continue with the "la la la not listening they all do that mate" line; which is.... disappointing.
Anyway, the replacement pin was apparently the same 6mm diameter as the original while Warlands did a decent job; not without an amount of damage to the finish but realistically about as good as it could have been given the process and I'm very grateful for their assistance.
Today the bike got a necessary half-arsed wash as I needed to strip the external gear shifter mech as it'd become varying degrees of reluctant to shift from the 16T to the 13T sprocket; typically this was significantly worse in the wet or after fitting a newly waxed chain.
Since none of the shifter mech has seen any attention in my ownership I stripped and cleaned all the associated bits at the back end of the bike.
Disassembly proved less than straighforward and I ended up resorting to a useful video on Brompton's website. As unimpressed as I remain by many aspects of the company, I do appreciate thier willingness to supply both information and tools to facilitate owners working on their own bikes.
It was still a bit of a pig and didn't come to bits as anticipated; possibly due to an amount of grit that had made its way inside..
Once apart I found the shifter setup to be more complex than anticipated with quite a few bits - below is the sub-assembly that transfers the shifter cable's motion to the "chain pusher":
If anyone's using the above as a guide for reassembly please note I've got the cable stop (bottom-right-most-part) the wrong way around by 180 degrees - the hook should face towards the left of the image.
Off the bike the assembly still operated OK but was a bit rough and had been subject to varying degrees of muck ingress; hardly surprising given its location and the rear mudguard's limited abilities. After a thorough clean it went back together with moly grease on the internal spring / cable and a smear of paste wax on the external spring / guide.
The chain pusher itself also felt pretty rough; again not really presenting a lot of resistance but certainly not right. This was stripped to reveal the ally (I think) and plastic bearing inside; which contained a surprising amount of crap. Not sure if this was contaminated grease or all mud; regardless it was given a thorough clean and reassembled with silicone grease..
While the bike was in bits I also noticed more play in the front wheel bearings; having been cleaned and repacked relatively recently these were just nipped up to remove the slop.
All back together and a quick test ride found shifting to be very slick and snappy so I think the problem is resolved; however the real proof will be in the next soaking wet ride or fresh chain fitment.
It seems that the filthy chain pusher was most likely responsible for the poor shifting and given how closely all the parts fit together it's surprising that so much contamination found its way inside. I guess over so many thousands of actuations and parts rotating next to each other it can work its way in.
Maybe after the inevitable winter hammering I'll strip this assy again to see what it looks like / if anything can be done to protect it further; although my enthusiasm for the bike currently remains at a low ebb in the face of the avoidable issues encountered recently..
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rogerzilla
Legendary Member
The derailleur assembly is really Heath Robinson. The reason it's like that, with the huge springs, is because Brompton wanted a lot of slack in the operating mechanism, so you can initiate a shift when not pedalling (or stationary), although the shift won't actually complete until you start pedalling. The bikes are intended for use by non-enthusiasts who could be confused by the difference between a hub gear shift (best when freewheeling) and a derailleur shift (need to pedal).
The newer actuating mechanism that goes with the integrated shift/brake lever is worse than the old one as there is a sliding part that is known to jam if dirty or just in hot weather.
Changing the cable on either type is an experience you don't forget quickly.
The newer actuating mechanism that goes with the integrated shift/brake lever is worse than the old one as there is a sliding part that is known to jam if dirty or just in hot weather.
Changing the cable on either type is an experience you don't forget quickly.
Thanks - I'e found the hub shifter lever to occasionally be temperamental in returning to its original position, but other than the issue described above have found the gears to be pretty reliable.
I think the pusher itself seems pretty robust and well executed (sealing notwithstanding); while the upstream cable assembly is certainly "unique". Again sealing could be better (or for the hundredth time protection from the mudguards better) however I guess I can't complain too much after 3.7k miles and over a year's use in all weathers without any attention.
Nup; circumstances have conspired to rob me of both the motivation or opportunity to do much on the bike of late.
Thankfully my bodge has held pretty well; although disintegrated yesterday upon collapsing the seatpost to get the bike in the car at the end of the last day of work for the year; so the timing could have been worse.
In the absence of any better solutions I suppose I'll have to pay someone to approximate the original lashup when I get the opportunity; although it's a pain regardless - let alone when the weather's grotty.
As a general update the bike's now done about 4200 miles and saved a similar amount of car-miles over 201 commutes in 18 months. I reckon it's saved me about £640 in fuel and (calculated pro-rata on wear-related vehicle repairs) probably about £250 in wear and tear.
I got some Conti Contact Urban tyres at a good price a while ago and have been running one on the back - seems a shade more supple than the Schwalbes with similar levels of performance otherwise.
I've been having problems with tubes in the front tyre repeatedly perishing; not sure if it's a problem with the tubes themselves or caused by the presence of sealant residue from previous aborted tubeless attempts. Either way it's proving both frustrating and expensive as they can't be patched..
The counter to this is that so far I've been very lucky with actual punctures; although I think this is just down to luck rather than my dilligence in clearing the brambles from the tow path or any possible superior puncture resistance from the new rear tyre.
Unsurprisingly given the weather the bike could do with a good clean; although this is a hateful task at the best of times and especially unpleasant in the cold of winter..
Did mine today, it was pretty grimy, also did some other small jobs and checked the torque on all the bolts.
Good work - wish I could motivate myself to do the same...
After spending most of the holiday sat filthy and ignored in the sin bin, the Brompton finally had a small serving of love today.
The petulant little shoot was dragged, sans-seatpost into the fading afternoon light, lashed into the workstand and given a functional wash to get the worst of the caked muck off.
It's not the easiest of jobs at the best of times; made worse by my struggling to make any effort. Under a critical eye in decent lighting the bike still looks pretty grotty but at least it's no longer problematically dirty and looks OK from a distance.
At the 4200 miles it's now covered the brake pads are nearly down to nowt, although I should get another few hundred miles out of them.
I'm impressed by the Conti Urban Contact tyre on the back which still looks in great nick for the 850 miles it's covered so far; with none of the obvious damage displayed by the Marathon Racer on the front.. although to be fair that's covered nearly 2.5 times the distance. Seems I've been lucky with "proper" punctures this winter as the Conti has remained puncture-free since fitment, while the Marathon Racer on the front has done nearly 1300 miles without any air loss due to foreign objects piercing the tyre sufficiently to bother the tube.
Since the Racer has covered more mileage and I'm currently favouring the Contis, I might move the Schwalbe to the back in an effort to wear it out quicker so I can get a matched pair of Urban Contacts on there. However, I suspect it's got quite a few more miles left in it if not written off prematurely by damage like its predecessors.
In other news the two chains have had another wax after a few hard rides in the wet; the pins on the quick links of each now both showing obvious wear at their contact faces with the adjacent links. The wear grooves in the pins are typically 0.04mm deep, which, ignoring any corresponding wear on the links they engage would suggest about 0.32% wear so about 2/3ds towards the 0.5% wear limit.
Each chain has covered a little over 2k miles with the quicklink wear suggesting a life of around 3250 miles; however I wonder if wear at the QLs is worse than elsewhere in the chains as previous measurement over many links suggested a service life closer to 4k miles. It's possible that the QLs have a hard life since the wax on them will be disturbed during fitting and as such lubrication might not be as good as at other links.
Finally the situation with the seatpost remains a mess; the remnants of my lashed-up shim have been removed, leaving the loose, worn, cracked plastic bush in place. I've not had this out yet but it was pretty nasty inside and I don't imagine it's got any better.
I'll have to bodge it again to get to work and back in the short term, and suppose I'll have to pay to get a new bush fitted - as much as I dislike like this system and by extension the damage it's caused to the frame
The petulant little shoot was dragged, sans-seatpost into the fading afternoon light, lashed into the workstand and given a functional wash to get the worst of the caked muck off.
It's not the easiest of jobs at the best of times; made worse by my struggling to make any effort. Under a critical eye in decent lighting the bike still looks pretty grotty but at least it's no longer problematically dirty and looks OK from a distance.
At the 4200 miles it's now covered the brake pads are nearly down to nowt, although I should get another few hundred miles out of them.
I'm impressed by the Conti Urban Contact tyre on the back which still looks in great nick for the 850 miles it's covered so far; with none of the obvious damage displayed by the Marathon Racer on the front.. although to be fair that's covered nearly 2.5 times the distance. Seems I've been lucky with "proper" punctures this winter as the Conti has remained puncture-free since fitment, while the Marathon Racer on the front has done nearly 1300 miles without any air loss due to foreign objects piercing the tyre sufficiently to bother the tube.
Since the Racer has covered more mileage and I'm currently favouring the Contis, I might move the Schwalbe to the back in an effort to wear it out quicker so I can get a matched pair of Urban Contacts on there. However, I suspect it's got quite a few more miles left in it if not written off prematurely by damage like its predecessors.
In other news the two chains have had another wax after a few hard rides in the wet; the pins on the quick links of each now both showing obvious wear at their contact faces with the adjacent links. The wear grooves in the pins are typically 0.04mm deep, which, ignoring any corresponding wear on the links they engage would suggest about 0.32% wear so about 2/3ds towards the 0.5% wear limit.
Each chain has covered a little over 2k miles with the quicklink wear suggesting a life of around 3250 miles; however I wonder if wear at the QLs is worse than elsewhere in the chains as previous measurement over many links suggested a service life closer to 4k miles. It's possible that the QLs have a hard life since the wax on them will be disturbed during fitting and as such lubrication might not be as good as at other links.
Finally the situation with the seatpost remains a mess; the remnants of my lashed-up shim have been removed, leaving the loose, worn, cracked plastic bush in place. I've not had this out yet but it was pretty nasty inside and I don't imagine it's got any better.
I'll have to bodge it again to get to work and back in the short term, and suppose I'll have to pay to get a new bush fitted - as much as I dislike like this system and by extension the damage it's caused to the frame
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Another uplifting report...
With a new week of work looming the Brompton was reluctantly engaged with after languishing conspicuously, sans-seatpost-assy in a corner for the duration of the holiday.
The immediate job was to bodge the knackered seatpost bush with another shim; and - boring-even-for-me details omitted - another Red Bull can was sacrificed and a workable shim installed between the seatpost and bush.
Before installation I removed the now-very-tired looking bush and inspected the inside of the seatpost tube; which unsurprisingly looked even worse than previously... the areas of bare metal remaining where the finish had been torn off by the factory superglue now rusty again, despite being coated with grease last time.
I also reluctantly took a look at the bottom of the seatpost tube in the frame, on account of the hammering this takes when the seatpost is extended and retracted. Sure enough there was obvious damage present, which was degreased with isopropanol and touched up with clear lacquer in the hope of slowing further degradation.
This area can be seen in the pic below after the first dose of lacquer. The bulk of the damage is in the darker heat-affected zone near the edge of the tube; the collection of "craters" to the right evidently the result of the tube striking the frame during operation (probably retraction).
In this image lacquer has been applied to all of the HAZ and the RHS of the area below, that to the left still showing the shallow scoring caused by the gritty seatpost tube being dragged past.. this area was subsequently also touched up.
While not obvious at the time I can now see from the photo that there is a small amount of corrosion present that should have been treated; which is irritating. Hopefully it won't propagate as the bike's been sat in the warm house for the past two weeks so should be dry.
Considering the bike's limited age, (relatively) limited usage and how hard I've tried to prevent damage in this area it's understandable why it's not unusual to find older, well-used examples with rampant corrosion in this area of the frame..
While buggering about with the above I also de-rusted and touched up a few chips on the rear frame; noting at the same time the amount of rampant surface corrosion within the tubes of this structure as well as the main tubes of the frame
Some of the components aren't faring particularly well either; including the return spring and fixings on the brake calipers and the hexagonal inserts in the chain tensioner assy..
Today saw the discovery of a can of waxoyl in the shed so hopefully come summer when the bike's bone dry it'll get stripped, thoroughly de-rusted internally and - once suitable apparatus is found - pumped full of cavity wax...
With a new week of work looming the Brompton was reluctantly engaged with after languishing conspicuously, sans-seatpost-assy in a corner for the duration of the holiday.
The immediate job was to bodge the knackered seatpost bush with another shim; and - boring-even-for-me details omitted - another Red Bull can was sacrificed and a workable shim installed between the seatpost and bush.
Before installation I removed the now-very-tired looking bush and inspected the inside of the seatpost tube; which unsurprisingly looked even worse than previously... the areas of bare metal remaining where the finish had been torn off by the factory superglue now rusty again, despite being coated with grease last time.
I also reluctantly took a look at the bottom of the seatpost tube in the frame, on account of the hammering this takes when the seatpost is extended and retracted. Sure enough there was obvious damage present, which was degreased with isopropanol and touched up with clear lacquer in the hope of slowing further degradation.
This area can be seen in the pic below after the first dose of lacquer. The bulk of the damage is in the darker heat-affected zone near the edge of the tube; the collection of "craters" to the right evidently the result of the tube striking the frame during operation (probably retraction).
In this image lacquer has been applied to all of the HAZ and the RHS of the area below, that to the left still showing the shallow scoring caused by the gritty seatpost tube being dragged past.. this area was subsequently also touched up.
While not obvious at the time I can now see from the photo that there is a small amount of corrosion present that should have been treated; which is irritating. Hopefully it won't propagate as the bike's been sat in the warm house for the past two weeks so should be dry.
Considering the bike's limited age, (relatively) limited usage and how hard I've tried to prevent damage in this area it's understandable why it's not unusual to find older, well-used examples with rampant corrosion in this area of the frame..
While buggering about with the above I also de-rusted and touched up a few chips on the rear frame; noting at the same time the amount of rampant surface corrosion within the tubes of this structure as well as the main tubes of the frame
Some of the components aren't faring particularly well either; including the return spring and fixings on the brake calipers and the hexagonal inserts in the chain tensioner assy..
Today saw the discovery of a can of waxoyl in the shed so hopefully come summer when the bike's bone dry it'll get stripped, thoroughly de-rusted internally and - once suitable apparatus is found - pumped full of cavity wax...
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Thanks - I've heard good things about that but never tried it. I'm happy to use waxoyl in the frame but less sure about exposed components. Tbh I don't think there's much that will protect the blued steel of the fixings in the chain tensioner in the face of repeated exposure to the elements but it's worth a go!
CaptainWheezy
Über Member
- Location
- Chesterfield
+1 for ACF-50
I use a bit of sponge on the end of a bit of old wire coat hanger, soak it in the stuff then poke it down the various frame tubes to ensure they get a good coating.
I use a bit of sponge on the end of a bit of old wire coat hanger, soak it in the stuff then poke it down the various frame tubes to ensure they get a good coating.
Drago
Legendary Member
- Location
- Suburban Poshshire
Or even better, one of the lanolin based sprays. Buzzweld's aerosol spray is very good value.
