Zwift, Tour of Watopia 2018

[CXRAndy]

I've dropped out of the CG for the time being to concentrate on Climbing / Endurance riding and Endurance intervals, partly to see if I can drop a couple of kilos before Mallorca, but also to get myself in proper shape for long days and lots of climbing. I did a Bkool route week before last which is Alpe D'Huez, Col de Sarenne, then drop down the back of the Alpe to Bourg d'Oisans .. A mere 34.5 Miles and 5000ft of climbing, in just over the 2 hours ... My planned big ride is 3 times that , I can guarantee that I won't be doing it in 6 hours, and will not be pushing 300W going downhill, in fact I don't think I'll be pushing 300W going up hill either. The one thing that concerns me is gearing I run a 50-34 compact and an 11-32 rear, the bike I'm hiring is 50/34 and 11-28, with no option to change it. I know I have the power to drop the cadence to 70/75 and grind up (although perhaps not for 9 miles of 5-6%!), so I can ride it as long as the knees hold out.

Personally I'm seriously looking at going sub compact with Absolute Black oval rings, why do I care what people think if I'm not running a 53 /39 and 11-25 like the pros? I'm 55 FFS, I'm not a pro, or an elite athlete, I'm doing this for 'fun'. Using the Bike Gear Calculator I get the following on a 25c tyre at a 90 cadence

50 - 11 gives 120.3" top speed 32.2 MPH
50 - 32 gives 41.3" top speed 11.1 MPH
34 - 11 gives 81.8" top speed 21.9 MPH
34 - 32 gives 28.1" top speed 7.53 MPH

48 - 11 gives 115.4" top speed 30.9 MPH
48 - 32 gives 39.7" top speed 10.62 MPH
32 - 11 gives 77" top speed 20.6 MPH
32 - 32 gives 26.5" top speed 7.1 MPH

So nothing drastically different, apart from the ability to turn the pedals, the torque figures are interesting significantly easing strain on the knees.

Aleman, I dont know what you weigh? I can give you some background to gearing of my setup and those I have ridden with up mountains. I weigh 92KG, so hills are not my strong point for speed. I built a touring bike with the capability to climb mountains gradients in comfort. I did my research and opted for mtb groupset. The original gearing was 40/28 crank and 11-32/40 cassettes. It has been perfect for allowing me to spin, I mean 85rpm and above up mountains like Teide or Ventoux. I have now changed the outer crank ring to 44T, because I got dropped in the IOW cyclechat ride going down hill. This extra allows me to go upto 32mph and keep cadence at 100rpm. I tried this modified gearing last month in Tenerife and found the extra top end very useful for low percent descents where I could power along without spinning to high.

Now I've ridden with about 30 different riders on these mountain events and all of them weigh significantly less than me. Most top out around 83KG. All of them used 50/34 crank and 11-32 cassesttes. They were able to ride up the same mountains as me in reasonable comfort, albeit they were on the 34crank and 32t cass- no bailout gear left.

If you plan long mountain climbs and weigh more than 85kg get easier gearing than compact 50/34 11-32. This all depends whether you're are comfortable holding a lower cadence for several hours, I'm not personally, I like >85rpm for long climbs. I hope that helps, not trying to show you how to suck eggs either

 

[kipster]

I've dropped out of the CG for the time being to concentrate on Climbing / Endurance riding and Endurance intervals, partly to see if I can drop a couple of kilos before Mallorca, but also to get myself in proper shape for long days and lots of climbing. I did a Bkool route week before last which is Alpe D'Huez, Col de Sarenne, then drop down the back of the Alpe to Bourg d'Oisans .. A mere 34.5 Miles and 5000ft of climbing, in just over the 2 hours ... My planned big ride is 3 times that , I can guarantee that I won't be doing it in 6 hours, and will not be pushing 300W going downhill, in fact I don't think I'll be pushing 300W going up hill either. The one thing that concerns me is gearing I run a 50-34 compact and an 11-32 rear, the bike I'm hiring is 50/34 and 11-28, with no option to change it. I know I have the power to drop the cadence to 70/75 and grind up (although perhaps not for 9 miles of 5-6%!), so I can ride it as long as the knees hold out.

Personally I'm seriously looking at going sub compact with Absolute Black oval rings, why do I care what people think if I'm not running a 53 /39 and 11-25 like the pros? I'm 55 FFS, I'm not a pro, or an elite athlete, I'm doing this for 'fun'. Using the Bike Gear Calculator I get the following on a 25c tyre at a 90 cadence

50 - 11 gives 120.3" top speed 32.2 MPH
50 - 32 gives 41.3" top speed 11.1 MPH
34 - 11 gives 81.8" top speed 21.9 MPH
34 - 32 gives 28.1" top speed 7.53 MPH

48 - 11 gives 115.4" top speed 30.9 MPH
48 - 32 gives 39.7" top speed 10.62 MPH
32 - 11 gives 77" top speed 20.6 MPH
32 - 32 gives 26.5" top speed 7.1 MPH

So nothing drastically different, apart from the ability to turn the pedals, the torque figures are interesting significantly easing strain on the knees.

I'm guessing 9 miles of 6% is Puig Major? It is fine on 34 - 28, but it's always nice to have another gear for a rest.

 

[CXRAndy]

Current Ranking ToW https://www.zwiftpower.com/league.php?id=23

after 3 legs

position 1479 Time 3:28:26 Bob
1253 3:25:15 Andy
382 3:09:13 Lee
1361 3:26:55 Dean
2757 3:45:22 Carl

plus others

 

[Breedon]

I've dropped out of the CG for the time being to concentrate on Climbing / Endurance riding and Endurance intervals, partly to see if I can drop a couple of kilos before Mallorca, but also to get myself in proper shape for long days and lots of climbing. I did a Bkool route week before last which is Alpe D'Huez, Col de Sarenne, then drop down the back of the Alpe to Bourg d'Oisans .. A mere 34.5 Miles and 5000ft of climbing, in just over the 2 hours ... My planned big ride is 3 times that , I can guarantee that I won't be doing it in 6 hours, and will not be pushing 300W going downhill, in fact I don't think I'll be pushing 300W going up hill either. The one thing that concerns me is gearing I run a 50-34 compact and an 11-32 rear, the bike I'm hiring is 50/34 and 11-28, with no option to change it. I know I have the power to drop the cadence to 70/75 and grind up (although perhaps not for 9 miles of 5-6%!), so I can ride it as long as the knees hold out.

Personally I'm seriously looking at going sub compact with Absolute Black oval rings, why do I care what people think if I'm not running a 53 /39 and 11-25 like the pros? I'm 55 FFS, I'm not a pro, or an elite athlete, I'm doing this for 'fun'. Using the Bike Gear Calculator I get the following on a 25c tyre at a 90 cadence

50 - 11 gives 120.3" top speed 32.2 MPH
50 - 32 gives 41.3" top speed 11.1 MPH
34 - 11 gives 81.8" top speed 21.9 MPH
34 - 32 gives 28.1" top speed 7.53 MPH

48 - 11 gives 115.4" top speed 30.9 MPH
48 - 32 gives 39.7" top speed 10.62 MPH
32 - 11 gives 77" top speed 20.6 MPH
32 - 32 gives 26.5" top speed 7.1 MPH

So nothing drastically different, apart from the ability to turn the pedals, the torque figures are interesting significantly easing strain on the knees.

How do you find the absolute black rings, I've ordered the inner ring 34 tooth to see how it goes do you also have the outer ring as well and do you feel it's made a difference to your climbing

 

[bobinski]

I don’t know. I know what you’re saying. But what happens when (if) your knee starts hurting next week again? Is that down to the racing you’ve done or just coincidental? If it’s the racing then you’re bacially going round in circles. Maybe hoping that the knee slowly becomes stronger?
Or is it that you have a long term condition, not directly caused by cycling, so accept that there’s going to be good and bad weeks. I think I’m your case you feel it’s the latter.
For me at the moment I don’t know the cause of my knee pain. But I started doing trainerroad this winter for the first time. And I bought a new turbo trainer this winter. So I can’t dissmiss them as possible causes. Possibly even a combination of the two.
It could of course just be wear and tear, working on my knees, getting old etc. But... the temperature’s up now. So I can cycle outdoors. Yesterday I went for a ride and I kept my cadence hi and watts low. And today I feel pretty good. In fact my shoulders are worse than my knee for a change so it’s another sign I need to work on my endurance riding. So it’s not real hardship for me to avoid racing and trainerroad for a while. I’ll still use zwift and brvr for climbing.

Tommy, Waiting for MRI results so no definitive diagnosis yet. But, at 55y I accept at vey least indicators are torn miniscus and some degenerative damage. The indicators are that walking and sitting makes things worse while cycling tends to make things better albeit if I have walked a lot then the cycling takes longer to help. I suspect joint issues are generally helped by the movement of pedalling subject sometimes tonoushing too many watts. An outlier which I am investigating is my footwear. When ITB and then knee flared up various people urged me to use footwear with no arch support such as vivobarefoot and so I did. I think doing so has made things worse so I am using arched insoles with them with a significant improvement. I used to be woken by knee pain and tendinitis in leg. Since using the insoles-touches wood- that’s gone. So, fingers crossed that a trigger for knee pain has gone. So, in short, I suspect pain/discomfort/inflammation will likely always be there but is likley manageable and hoped improved rather than exacerbated by cycling. Query what happens if, as I hope, my normalised power improves 30-40w.

 

[bobinski]

I have ride 100% realism all the time. I have 52/36 and 11-28. I have ride 2 times alpe du zwift and not needed 36/28 yet.

Wow- that’s pretty impressive. I ran 100% on my first Alp attempt and needed 34/28 for anything over 10% to maintain Cadence. I made mistake of running 50% last night and didn’t like fact I was in big ring for much of ride. It just felt wrong even though I knew Zwift using its algorithm to adjust speed. My fastest times upbthe kom and tower have always been at 100%
Well done.

 

[Aleman]

How do you find the absolute black rings, I've ordered the inner ring 34 tooth to see how it goes do you also have the outer ring as well and do you feel it's made a difference to your climbing

Don't know, haven't ordered them yet, a slight issue with a daughter not able to make the rent or the utility bill The sub compact ones come as a 'set', although you can/must order them individually so all or nothing.

@CXRAndy Weight wise, I'm one of the lightweights at 66-68Kg, so pushing a lower cadence isn't really that hard, but the knees do suffer after time. I have, in my time, toured Southern Europe fully laden on a steely with a double chain set and 7 speeds on the back. If I was going to play that game again I'd go with a Triple Deore Setup with a 46 big ring. TBH I don't really envisage not being able to get up the climbs, it's just that unknown factor, and the nagging doubt. Half this endurance cycling game is mental, so I'm trying to convince myself that I can do it.

Yep @kipster Puig Major, from Andraxt via des canonge, puerto valdemossa, and before sa calobra. Then a couple of days later Valdemossa to pollensa via col de soller and Orient. Thinking of Randa/San Sebastieo as a round trip from Pollensa as well.

 

[bobinski]

Yes altering the realism does allow you to run higher gearing on steep hills. I left mine on 50% I'm still running 53/39 and 11-28 Cass I didn't need the 28t last night.

Zwift uses the power figure to work out speed along with weight, incline . wind speed I believe is factored in also but set at zero

Andy, I don’t recall changing the realism setting having any impact at all using a pro. Or rather, I started at 50% on pro then when I thought my rides were affected upped the realism to 100% with no noticeable difference,

 

[bobinski]

Last post today from Prague while I wait for nipper and missus to stir...
I am not back till late Saturday so couldn’t do a race but will watch if it goes ahead

 

[CXRAndy]

Wow- that’s pretty impressive. I ran 100% on my first Alp attempt and needed 34/28 for anything over 10% to maintain Cadence. I made mistake of running 50% last night and didn’t like fact I was in big ring for much of ride. It just felt wrong even though I knew Zwift using its algorithm to adjust speed. My fastest times upbthe kom and tower have always been at 100%
Well done.

He is using a Bkool pro, so resistance will max out lower than real gradient. non the less 100% on a 36t crank.

Saying that i was using 39t crank--------------ahem @50%

 

[CXRAndy]

Andy, I don’t recall changing the realism setting having any impact at all using a pro. Or rather, I started at 50% on pro then when I thought my rides were affected upped the realism to 100% with no noticeable difference,

It must make a difference, there is no way I could climb 10-13% with 39t crank and 25t cog at 80rpm without having 400W+ power.

 

[bobinski]

It must make a difference, there is no way I could climb 10-13% with 39t crank and 25t cog at 80rpm without having 400W+ power.

On a Kickr yes but on a pro or other trainer where resistance maxes out? Perhaps I am being obtuse

 

[bridgy]

On a Kickr yes but on a pro or other trainer where resistance maxes out? Perhaps I am being obtuse

It definitely makes a noticeable difference on my Pro. With the "difficulty" at about 60% (from memory) I can climb Box Hill completely in the big front ring - at 100% I can't. I definitely used to have the difficulty reduced for this reason - it meant I could complete most courses without changing to small front chainring so was less likely to lose time faffing about with gears, or risk dropping the chain. I just can't remember if I've still got it set to this or not.

If you think about it, by reducing the difficulty setting the trainer doesn't have to try and replicate such an steep incline (the software adjusts for this though) - hence being able to use bigger gears. So Tommy may well have a point that reducing the difficulty setting to 50% on the Pro might to some extent overcome the fact it max's out resistance on the steeper sections on Alpe Du Zwift - because it won't have to try and replicate such steep inclines anyway

 

[JuhaL]

Wow- that’s pretty impressive. I ran 100% on my first Alp attempt and needed 34/28 for anything over 10% to maintain Cadence. I made mistake of running 50% last night and didn’t like fact I was in big ring for much of ride. It just felt wrong even though I knew Zwift using its algorithm to adjust speed. My fastest times upbthe kom and tower have always been at 100%
Well done.

I have need to learn different pedaling techinque to avoid tyre slippage problems in ascents. Impossible to avoid completely but feeling better now. It's more like bit of lower cadence.

 

[JuhaL]

Because of morning-shift my energy level seems to be low now. We'll see how the stage 4 goes, hopefully under 1hr.