Zwift Chat

[alex_cycles]

Have you got the option to see and ride with other categories? I'm happy to try and hang with higher cats for as long as possible. Makes the early racing more involved

I think that option exists but I'm reluctant to go down that path at this point because it defeats the intent of racing with people of approximately similar ability.

Let me explain. The idea of alternating the category thresholds is that sometimes you're the hammer and somtimes the nail. Nobody should be getting repeatedly destroyed month after month in all of the different types of races.

What I've found is that as a light Sapphire I can hold on OK with a few Emeralds on the flat, but once the Rubies start getting into the race they push the pace to something I can't sustain. Add in a couple of diamonds and I'm blown up before my time. If we're all together it's essentially the same as a Cat B race which is exactly what I'm trying to get away from.

On the Friday Smash it was OK because that was a balls-out 12-15 minutes with the full intention of blowing through your anaerobic reserve.
On a longer race it will wreck it, and that's not what I want for this series.

And just to show you that the alternating thresholds works for those who do all the races...
In September in my League I was 5th of 6 who did all four and I didn't get any podiums. I was the nail in 550-650

In October I was the hammer in 500-600 with three podiums and an overall win. Busick, Schmidt and Taylor were all in the pen above me.


We really could do with a few more people in each pen, I agree. We had 16 in my race yesterday, which was great fun (more than EMEA for some reason). I'm going to keep it as it is for another couple of months and we'll see how it goes by the end of December.

 

[CXRAndy]

Fair do 's 👍

 

[mjd1988]

I’m not a / never been a training peaks user so can’t comment too much but afaik they had a very basic platform for indoor cycling - most users probably using Zwift/other with their ride data going across to TP. So indievelo gives their users a virtual world to distract them in their pain caves.
Reading social media etc it seems IV will remain free until next March. IV has had a paid subscription model costing $130/yr which provided iPad/ATV usage (free version was PC only). I;ve used it a few times and couple of races recently. Certainly way lower in terms of number of other humans but they have some nice features.

Useful right up by DC Rainmaker - https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2024/10/trainingpeaks-acquires-indievelo.html

Oh interesting, thanks

Nb did I see kickr bikes now have steering? Did the wattbike ever get that functionality?

 

[Whorty]

I think that option exists but I'm reluctant to go down that path at this point because it defeats the intent of racing with people of approximately similar ability.

Let me explain. The idea of alternating the category thresholds is that sometimes you're the hammer and somtimes the nail. Nobody should be getting repeatedly destroyed month after month in all of the different types of races.

What I've found is that as a light Sapphire I can hold on OK with a few Emeralds on the flat, but once the Rubies start getting into the race they push the pace to something I can't sustain. Add in a couple of diamonds and I'm blown up before my time. If we're all together it's essentially the same as a Cat B race which is exactly what I'm trying to get away from.

On the Friday Smash it was OK because that was a balls-out 12-15 minutes with the full intention of blowing through your anaerobic reserve.
On a longer race it will wreck it, and that's not what I want for this series.

And just to show you that the alternating thresholds works for those who do all the races...
In September in my League I was 5th of 6 who did all four and I didn't get any podiums. I was the nail in 550-650
View attachment 751161
In October I was the hammer in 500-600 with three podiums and an overall win. Busick, Schmidt and Taylor were all in the pen above me.
View attachment 751160

We really could do with a few more people in each pen, I agree. We had 16 in my race yesterday, which was great fun (more than EMEA for some reason). I'm going to keep it as it is for another couple of months and we'll see how it goes by the end of December.

Unfortunately for some of us who's ZRS is still way off, we're always the nail I am at least below 350 now, and still dropping, so in a few months I may start to hang on to groups longer than 10 minutes but as soon as anything goes up, there are always Cs and Bs in the pen currently who just blow everyone apart. In the race earlier today, D pen but with B riders pushing the pace; just feels like the old days before the anti-sandbagging controls were put in place.
I join races now to get a ride in and some exercise, but have zero interest in racing anymore.
On another positive, my ZRS is still dropping with each ride I do

 

[CXRAndy]

Oh interesting, thanks

Nb did I see kickr bikes now have steering? Did the wattbike ever get that functionality?

Kickr V2 bike only for gear indicator recent update. I don't think Kickr got steering enabled? Someone jump on to correct me

 

[Whorty]

Oh interesting, thanks

Nb did I see kickr bikes now have steering? Did the wattbike ever get that functionality?

We have lots of buttons on the wattbike but only the gears work on Zwift - something tells me Zwift won;t release the code to allow the buttons to work as it could impact their ability to sell their own propriety hardware.

 

[CXRAndy]

We have lots of buttons on the wattbike but only the gears work on Zwift - something tells me Zwift won;t release the code to allow the buttons to work as it could impact their ability to sell their own propriety hardware.

That is true. I think only Tacx bike has enabled steering

 

[alex_cycles]

Unfortunately for some of us who's ZRS is still way off, we're always the nail I am at least below 350 now, and still dropping, so in a few months I may start to hang on to groups longer than 10 minutes but as soon as anything goes up, there are always Cs and Bs in the pen currently who just blow everyone apart. In the race earlier today, D pen but with B riders pushing the pace; just feels like the old days before the anti-sandbagging controls were put in place.
I join races now to get a ride in and some exercise, but have zero interest in racing anymore.
On another positive, my ZRS is still dropping with each ride I do

Had you seen the news yesterday that they're taking 30s out of seed? It's on a forum thread on the zwift forums. I would expect that to help someone in your position, but you've probably still got a lot of aerobic work to do too.

 

[CXRAndy]

Got a link Alex?

 

[Whorty]

Had you seen the news yesterday that they're taking 30s out of seed? It's on a forum thread on the zwift forums. I would expect that to help someone in your position, but you've probably still got a lot of aerobic work to do too.

That's useful, shame they didn't consider how silly that was when they did the original 'seeding' - it's certainly put me off even racing for every position so not sprinted since ZRS was released.

Their next change will be to go to 20 minutes w/kg, but as we can all see, that metric is still a great predictor of who will get to the finish line to contest the podium.

Don't know if you're seeing the same in other pens, but in the D pen (and certainly in the C pen previously), I'm seeing riders quit races all the time.

On a different but similar note - I didn't realise the guy who created IndieVelo was the brains behind ZADA and anti-sandbagging and cheating. Interesting that he took IV in a completely different route to power based categories and went purely results based in IV. Dynamic pens is a great move too, very smart.

 

[alex_cycles]

That's useful, shame they didn't consider how silly that was when they did the original 'seeding'

They're iterating. Albeit a bit slowly. Tell me this. They came up with a formula. How could they tell if it worked or not without testing it?

They've tested it. They've listened, and they've decided to make changes. This is NOT the Zwift of old. They are listening. You should be pleased instead of being negative about it. The other problem is there are a lot whiny bitch sandbaggers around (some of the guys we raced in Cat C ZRL are still there smashing away at the same level when they should have gone up years ago) and Zwift clearly wants to be careful not to listen too much to them because they are pretty much the reason why we need ZRS.

- it's certainly put me off even racing for every position so not sprinted since ZRS was released.

Their next change will be to go to 20 minutes w/kg, but as we can all see, that metric is still a great predictor of who will get to the finish line to contest the podium.

20 minute w/kg is an excellent predictor of the outcome of mountain races.
It's not very good at flat, where w^2/kg or something like W^1.4/kg is much better.

Statistically, 1m W/kg usually correlates better with finish position than 20m

Don't know if you're seeing the same in other pens, but in the D pen (and certainly in the C pen previously), I'm seeing riders quit races all the time.

The number of DNFs is about 10% higher in ZRS than it was in CE according to numbers I've seen. People have always DNFed and always will when there is no cost.

Got a link Alex?

https://forums.zwift.com/t/zwift-racing-score-update-october-2024/637779

 

[Whorty]

They're iterating. Albeit a bit slowly. Tell me this. They came up with a formula. How could they tell if it worked or not without testing it?

They've tested it. They've listened, and they've decided to make changes. This is NOT the Zwift of old. They are listening. You should be pleased instead of being negative about it. The other problem is there are a lot whiny bitch sandbaggers around (some of the guys we raced in Cat C ZRL are still there smashing away at the same level when they should have gone up years ago) and Zwift clearly wants to be careful not to listen too much to them because they are pretty much the reason why we need ZRS.


20 minute w/kg is an excellent predictor of the outcome of mountain races.
It's not very good at flat, where w^2/kg or something like W^1.4/kg is much better.

Statistically, 1m W/kg usually correlates better with finish position than 20m



The number of DNFs is about 10% higher in ZRS than it was in CE according to numbers I've seen. People have always DNFed and always will when there is no cost.


https://forums.zwift.com/t/zwift-racing-score-update-october-2024/637779

I'll check out the link - I forget that forum exists

 

[alex_cycles]

I'll check out the link - I forget that forum exists

That's probably the best approach to take to it, there's even more shite talked there than on here

 

[CXRAndy]

Some interesting ideas, and the ongoing adaptation to RS. I think from what I've read, they're listening and trying to get the best system.

Kudos for their ongoing commitment

 

[alex_cycles]

Some interesting ideas, and the ongoing adaptation to RS. I think from what I've read, they're listening and trying to get the best system.

Kudos for their ongoing commitment

Things are moving in the right direction. Zlowly, but Zurely.