Page may contain affiliate links. Please see terms for details.
steverob
Guru
- Location
- Buckinghamshire
Did Race Makuri Stage 5b this morning and came THIRD across the line, then noticed that the "winner" had no HR (and was almost certainly churning out B numbers had it gone longer than 20 minutes), moving me up to SECOND PLACE. Best ever results in C for me! 
Now quite a lot of that was down to picking the right bike (who takes a Tron to a course that was 70% dirt? Answer - about a quarter of the field) and the fact that a fair few of my opponents had done the Stage 5a race just beforehand (judging by the amount of people dropping in to the pens all at the same time with 8 minutes to go, which would be about the right timing) whereas I was on fresh legs, albeit not long out of bed. But I am absolutely made up about that.
Shame the other race I did right after on a very similar course I only came 15th out of 17th, eh? My excuse is I'd given it all for that podium, plus the second race was an "E" all category so everyone else was probably an A, and I'm not going to look too closely at the results to prove that either!
Now quite a lot of that was down to picking the right bike (who takes a Tron to a course that was 70% dirt? Answer - about a quarter of the field) and the fact that a fair few of my opponents had done the Stage 5a race just beforehand (judging by the amount of people dropping in to the pens all at the same time with 8 minutes to go, which would be about the right timing) whereas I was on fresh legs, albeit not long out of bed. But I am absolutely made up about that.
Shame the other race I did right after on a very similar course I only came 15th out of 17th, eh? My excuse is I'd given it all for that podium, plus the second race was an "E" all category so everyone else was probably an A, and I'm not going to look too closely at the results to prove that either!
Last edited:
<Tommy>
Illegitimi non carborundum
- Location
- Camden, London
Thinking out loud, whilst having a blissfully peaceful breakfast at a favourite Camden town cafe I don’t get to visit often enough! …
If it’s TLDR then feel free to scroll on!
No one seems to be talking training plans recently. I wonder if that’s a general trend or just specific to this small enclave. Apart from a brief flirtation with TrainerRoad some years ago now I’ve always just based my ‘regime’ around racing, endurance rides and recovery rides (mostly my commutes).
I know for me if I don’t include longer endurance type rides at least once a week or worst case fortnightly then I get found out in the summer in the real world. My best form in the mountains has been a reflection of my best combination of those three elements (race, recover, endurance). But in recent years I’ve done less of the latter, and my ‘staying power’ in the summer has been noticeably down.
I feel like this has been compounded by WRTL type races the last couple of years. The rise of prime style races seems to have changed the landscape dramatically. Very short high intensity efforts, but with very exaggerated lulls inbetween. Zwift always leant toward short effort and then recovery droids. But think now the point structure has really exaggerated this element to the extreme. In my opinion they can stunt growth. You have people intentionally avoiding promotion, in more sophisticated forms of sandbagging. But you also have people who are simply being stunted by the format of the leagues. This is fine of course if your end goal is optimal performance in the league, or in the case of samdbaggers just best point results the WRTL. But for people wanting to push forward and transfer their riding gains to other formats, I think maybe it’s a little stifling.
I’m hoping from a personal perspective getting promoted out of the team will help me move away from a focus on 15s,1 & 5 min power. And allow me to focus on increasing my all round strength over longer periods.
This group generally seems very focussed on short term power. And just going full circle in this debate of one I am having in my head in this cafe. I wonder if that’s a reflection of how zwift racing is going as a whole, or that it’s just the current trend of this group. I can see the mass appeal of WRTL. Why prime racing would appeal to the majority, as it allows the most amount of people in the peloton to feel like they can contribute in some meaningful way. As opposed to traditional racing where less people go away with a virtual medal. But is it stifling trainerroad style training plans and more ambitious goals in general for any of you?
If it’s TLDR then feel free to scroll on!
No one seems to be talking training plans recently. I wonder if that’s a general trend or just specific to this small enclave. Apart from a brief flirtation with TrainerRoad some years ago now I’ve always just based my ‘regime’ around racing, endurance rides and recovery rides (mostly my commutes).
I know for me if I don’t include longer endurance type rides at least once a week or worst case fortnightly then I get found out in the summer in the real world. My best form in the mountains has been a reflection of my best combination of those three elements (race, recover, endurance). But in recent years I’ve done less of the latter, and my ‘staying power’ in the summer has been noticeably down.
I feel like this has been compounded by WRTL type races the last couple of years. The rise of prime style races seems to have changed the landscape dramatically. Very short high intensity efforts, but with very exaggerated lulls inbetween. Zwift always leant toward short effort and then recovery droids. But think now the point structure has really exaggerated this element to the extreme. In my opinion they can stunt growth. You have people intentionally avoiding promotion, in more sophisticated forms of sandbagging. But you also have people who are simply being stunted by the format of the leagues. This is fine of course if your end goal is optimal performance in the league, or in the case of samdbaggers just best point results the WRTL. But for people wanting to push forward and transfer their riding gains to other formats, I think maybe it’s a little stifling.
I’m hoping from a personal perspective getting promoted out of the team will help me move away from a focus on 15s,1 & 5 min power. And allow me to focus on increasing my all round strength over longer periods.
This group generally seems very focussed on short term power. And just going full circle in this debate of one I am having in my head in this cafe. I wonder if that’s a reflection of how zwift racing is going as a whole, or that it’s just the current trend of this group. I can see the mass appeal of WRTL. Why prime racing would appeal to the majority, as it allows the most amount of people in the peloton to feel like they can contribute in some meaningful way. As opposed to traditional racing where less people go away with a virtual medal. But is it stifling trainerroad style training plans and more ambitious goals in general for any of you?
<Tommy>
Illegitimi non carborundum
- Location
- Camden, London
Well as long as there is nothing in the small print about Yorkshiremen winning Irish leagues I secured the RWB Primor League tonight and won a jersey.
In D the fields were pretty small and weak. A couple of the stronger riders got upgraded on a mountain stage but all said and done I could only try and beat the riders in front of me and I’m pleased to win.
View attachment 669871
They do put on some good leagues though. Good varied courses with something for everyone. Will try C next time
Well done joff, very consistent mate!👍👍.
Peter Salt
Bittersweet
- Location
- Yorkshire, UK
Bravo! frame itWell as long as there is nothing in the small print about Yorkshiremen winning Irish leagues I secured the RWB Primor League tonight and won a jersey.
In D the fields were pretty small and weak. A couple of the stronger riders got upgraded on a mountain stage but all said and done I could only try and beat the riders in front of me and I’m pleased to win.
View attachment 669871
They do put on some good leagues though. Good varied courses with something for everyone. Will try C next time
Never noticed you were focusing on 15s power
Banter aside, I just said, a page or two ago, that I'm not following a training plan. Literally do what you described, smash a race once or twice a week, outside of that it's zone 2. I make stuff up as I go along, don't plan weeks in advance.
I agree with your assertion - Zwift does encourage this kind of mentality and it is quite addictive. Last year I had to really focus on following my plan - it helped paying for a coach because there was someone to be accountable to - and no room for the easy "oh I just fancy a race today" decisions.
I think you can build fitness to quite a high extent with the race/endurance/recovery formula but when you get near the pointy end of your ability a structured plan makes the big difference, particularly as plans are usually aimed at a few A races in the year which you peak for.
berty bassett
Legendary Member
- Location
- I'boro
personally never done a training plan . training for what ? I like to try and keep fit as best I can but maybe at the cost of 15sec power
I enjoy trying to put as much power as I can for as long as I can before I pop and I like the itt events as its a test against yourself
maybe its not the strategy used for racing where it seems to be hide in a group until you can launch a surge but I think it keeps you in better shape for outdoor riding and that's the main reason for me to have a turbo
I enjoy trying to put as much power as I can for as long as I can before I pop and I like the itt events as its a test against yourself
maybe its not the strategy used for racing where it seems to be hide in a group until you can launch a surge but I think it keeps you in better shape for outdoor riding and that's the main reason for me to have a turbo
alex_cycles
Veteran
- Location
- Oxfordshire
Some truth and very valid points there. I can’t get away from another truth, which is that indoor training is fundamentally boring. I rode Tire Bouchon 62km last week as I’m running out of new routes, and it reminded me that an indoor ride >2 hours actually isn’t all that much fun. Whereas outside several hours is very enjoyable. I think that must be why people are favouring shorter but higher intensity (also time constraints), and racing fits the bill quite well.
Last edited:
berty bassett
Legendary Member
- Location
- I'boro
you Martin are one of the exceptions ! you have a coach and a plan and race - and I can fully see why you do what you do , to make end results in real life better - and I think that is brilliant and just a bit envious of your dedication - enjoy reading your posts
<Tommy>
Illegitimi non carborundum
- Location
- Camden, London
Never noticed you were focusing on 15s power
Banter aside, I just said, a page or two ago, that I'm not following a training plan. Literally do what you described, smash a race once or twice a week, outside of that it's zone 2. I make stuff up as I go along, don't plan weeks in advance.
Not to not pick (can you sense the ‘but’ coming?!)
But… I think you’re both doing training plans of your own design but maybe not articulating it as a plan. You’re both consistently doing the same thing on a regular basis. Which in turn will dictate what you get out of it.
I know you’re teasing Peter but you are right in truth. I don’t ever focus / train on my 15s power. It is intentional really. I think I look at it if a sprint at the end of the race. But someone 15s power after 2 or 5 km etc doesn’t really interest me. What they can do at the end of the race (what I’d consider traditionally the ‘business end’) is more relevant to me. I know that’s not the same for everyone. Hence why some people like prime style racing a lot more than me.
But really this conversation for me isn’t about the pros and cons of prime races. It’s more the pros and cons of our varying regimes.
<Tommy>
Illegitimi non carborundum
- Location
- Camden, London
I agree Alex. I can’t ride on the turbo for more than an hour really. But I guess depending on how you spend that hour the results can still very dramatically if you see what I mean.
I may have bitten off more than I can chew . I had riden 4 of 5 stages of Race Makuri so needed to finish that off but I'm also 6 of 8 stages down of Flamme rouge tour de Britiania. So last night did stage 6 Frr another lumpy 44kms round Harrogate this morning stage 5a (7km) flat and fast and 5b (5km) uphill back to back . Was ok in first race held the front group and sort of sprinted ,2nd race really struggled to hold power up the climb but did reasonable . So that leaves Stage 7 of Frr a pootle around Surrey hills with 1000mts of upness for tonight . Wish me luck
I strongly suggest a few days easy riding after this or a couple of days off. That should give you a sustainable bump in fitness. If you dig a deeper hole though it could take you the other way.
Well done on your efforts so far
mjd1988
Guru
Interesting discussion. I agree that zwift lends itself to short sharp efforts and racing is the most fun for it. It is also a self selecting group though, most of it are probably drawn to these efforts as realistically don't have enough time to do huge zone 2 efforts, with a few notable exceptions - and it very clearly does yield results. I've noticed performance drop off lately for longer efforts because at the minute I'm literally just doing two races a week, and now I don't have a bike I'll maybe reset after Christmas and try and balance it a bit more to what Peter does, rather than anything more structured. It helps that short efforts suit my power profile too, which can make me lazy.
I think I'm at a point in my life where time pressure is unlikely to change any time soon.
I have bought the time crunched cyclist...but I haven't had enough time to read it!
