Zwift Chat

[BurningLegs]

Great write up @JLaw and congrats on the successes in those crit races. I might rename you the crit shark

Can you give a bit more detail about the struggles you’ve had with dropouts? Are you pairing your trainer to companion app via Bluetooth?? You mentioned that you switched the pairing to Apple TV to resolve it - I’d definitely recommend that permanently.

People usually report better performance and fewer dropouts using Bluetooth than ANT+ so would be very surprised to hear you have problems with the trainer connected to Apple TV directly. If you do I’d suggest a firmware update on the trainer.

 

[mjd1988]

Little excerpt from zwiftinsider here. Specifically he is talking about trying to race with a riders when he is a top b rider, but it applies for anyone between two categories and want's to push on.

 

[Whorty]

So a few notes from last week's crit city races.

Monday. I noted one rider in the pens as particularly strong as we'd raced together recently. So I marked him through the race -- our lead pack kept dwindling and I think around lap 10 my mark and I pulled away from the remnants of the lead group as we crested the little climb. He ultimately took the final sprint and it was only after the ride I realized he wasn't ZP registered. Anyway, happy with the effort. 2nd place on ZP was like 4 minutes back by the end of the race.

Tuesday I think we'd whittled the lead group down to three by the 10th lap or so. I wasn't monitoring ZP, so I just assumed both opponents were legit. I was able to curb my desire to go early and instead waited a bit longer in my opponents' draft and caught them both before the line for first. It was only after the race that I realized the next ZP rider was actually ~2 minutes back. What was most interesting about this race was that only one rider got coned -- about 3 minutes in and well off the front. We reeled him in and eventually lapped him. My thought by the end of the race was that folks may be figuring out that sandbagging in the zhq beta races is just dumb.

That thought lasted less than 48hrs. On Thursday cones were flying in abundance. I think more than half the field got coned. One guy was complaining that he was in 7th place and coned while myself and a few others in the lead group were not coned. I guess he's just too dumb to realize it's power, not speed, that gets you coned. I was in the lead group and feeling strong. Then the dropouts started. At first they'd just be a few seconds and I could recover and stay with the lead pack. Then I got a massive drop -- so bad that I re-paired with apple tv rather than through the companion (and that takes a long time!). That took me back to ~10th on the road. Worked my way back up to 6th, but disappointed as this was a very winnable race -- the ZP winner was wasn't even in the lead pack when my drops started and he finished slower than both my Monday and Tuesday races.

I think I'm either going to get a 4iiii HRM and use that as a bridge or a dedicated zwift PC/laptop. The dropouts are driving me nuts and I'm having zero success figuring out what's causing them.

As for the race quality. It's probably time to start riding C for the 8/12 lap crit city races for no other reason than I'm going to get a better workout trying to stick with them. For anything with a climb or longer than ~40 minutes, I'll probably register in D as long as I'm allowed.

Good write up Jeff.

I have joined a couple sandbagger crit races and I think racers are just getting smart and gaming the system. I've been in the races with A and B riders who have not been coned; they just sit with the lead group until the last lap then blast away for the win after the final climb. I think we still need in Zwift the ability to only join races that are our cat or above to completely remove the problem of riders joining the wrong cat. Until that happens cheats will find a way to cheat

 

[<Tommy>]

Little excerpt from zwiftinsider here. Specifically he is talking about trying to race with a riders when he is a top b rider, but it applies for anyone between two categories and want's to push on.

View attachment 529836

I think there’s a bit of a dual reward system for online racing. One reward is the competition, ie winning and losing and challenging. The second, probably more long term rewarding aspect, is the personal fitness and well being it gives you.

For all the short term gratification or perceived ‘glory’ you might feel for a ‘win’. Ultimately your achievement is pretty hollow if we’re being honest. At least relative to the longer term benefit you get from the whole package.

I’ll give another example. I often do laps of my local park. It’s one of the most popular Strava segments in the uk. Because the roads so good, and by London standards quite uninterrupted, lots of riders of all ability use it to train. From Olympians and pro cyclists to chancers like me! Now sometimes when I’m going round I’ll look over my shoulder to realise there’s a big group maybe 10+ guys sat on my wheel. I swap turns in rotation with some of the guys, but many other times guys are just happy for the free speed sat on your wheel. so ultimately they’ve chosen short term speed benefit (improving their segment time) over long term strength improvement. Because long term my strength will increase at a faster rate to al the guys putting in less effort. It’s exactly what’s happened over the last few years. And it makes me more than happy to take big turns on the front.

Zwift racing is a bit like that too. So maybe it’s up to people to decide what they ultimately want out of it. Riding within yourself is more likely to give you short term results and that perception of ‘glory’. But it’ll stunt your long term improvement unless you constantly push yourself outside your comfort zone.

 

[<Tommy>]

Until that happens cheats will find a way to cheat

It seems ridiculous to everyone apart from the guys at Zwift HQ that that people are free to join the wrong race category. But that won’t stop cheating will it. Because people can still weight dope. And that is virtually impossible to police. With community participation (ie calling out cheating) it becomes harder to cheat. But people will always cheat.

 

[Norry1]

I’ll give another example. I often do laps of my local park. It’s one of the most popular Strava segments in the uk. Because the roads so good, and by London standards quite uninterrupted, lots of riders of all ability use it to train. From Olympians and pro cyclists to chancers like me! Now sometimes when I’m going round I’ll look over my shoulder to realise there’s a big group maybe 10+ guys sat on my wheel. I swap turns in rotation with some of the guys, but many other times guys are just happy for the free speed sat on your wheel. so ultimately they’ve chosen short term speed benefit (improving their segment time) over long term strength improvement. Because long term my strength will increase at a faster rate to al the guys putting in less effort. It’s exactly what’s happened over the last few years. And it makes me more than happy to take big turns on the front.

I note your best time there was in 2017. Best go sort that out

 

[BurningLegs]

It seems ridiculous to everyone apart from the guys at Zwift HQ that that people are free to join the wrong race category. But that won’t stop cheating will it. Because people can still weight dope. And that is virtually impossible to police.

I agree that it’s ridiculous that categories are not enforced, or there is at least an option for a ride leader/organiser to enforce it. That would be the best option IMO because you could then have open/unclassified events alongside the cat enforced options.

 

[Whorty]

I'm looking at the 15:00 Endurance Steady ride today if anyone else fancies a spin. 100km on the desert flats so should be nice and fast. Looking to go in A/B cat (as opposed to C/D cat) and see how long I can hold on at the higher watts. I'm hoping for about 20 mins (assuming I can get into the blob from the off), then will spin on for as long as I can thereafter.

 

[Norry1]

I'm looking at the 15:00 Endurance Steady ride today if anyone else fancies a spin. 100km on the desert flats so should be nice and fast. Looking to go in A/B cat (as opposed to C/D cat) and see how long I can hold on at the higher watts. I'm hoping for about 20 mins (assuming I can get into the blob from the off), then will spin on for as long as I can thereafter.

Do they stick to advertised w/kg on these rides?

 

[Whorty]

Do they stick to advertised w/kg on these rides?

Not done one of these before but probably not .... but I'm hoping to use this as a training ride (rather than do a workout). Try to hang on as long as possible, see if I can get into a group and make me work hard for at least an hour. Be nice if I could last the whole 100km but that might be a push.

 

[<Tommy>]

I note your best time there was in 2017. Best go sort that out

Probably a case in point to be fair. No doubt my watts and w/kg have gone up substantially since then. But that was a group ride with some of the quickest guys that train around there so it’ll be tough to topple unless I find myself in a similar spot.

Bob on the other hand could probably shave a few seconds off of his best effort if he really went for it 🧐

 

[bridgy]

Good write up Jeff.

I have joined a couple sandbagger crit races and I think racers are just getting smart and gaming the system. I've been in the races with A and B riders who have not been coned; they just sit with the lead group until the last lap then blast away for the win after the final climb. I think we still need in Zwift the ability to only join races that are our cat or above to completely remove the problem of riders joining the wrong cat. Until that happens cheats will find a way to cheat

I saw on twitter the other day the official Zwift account re-tweeted a guy who was celebrating winning a zwift race by posting a highlights video of his win. It was a Cat C race and the final results screen showed he'd averaged 334 watts and 3.7w/kg - Zwift just retweeted and congratulated him . Not sure it's a particularly big issue for them!

 

[Whorty]

Probably a case in point to be fair. No doubt my watts and w/kg have gone up substantially since then. But that was a group ride with some of the quickest guys that train around there so it’ll be tough to topple unless I find myself in a similar spot.

Bob on the other hand could probably shave a few seconds off of his best effort if he really went for it 🧐

Does Bob manage to complete a full lap?

 

[Aleman]

Does Bob manage to complete a full lap?

Without falling off??

 

[bobinski]

Bob on the other hand could probably shave a few seconds off of his best effort if he really went for it 🧐

So predictable 😁