Zwift Chat

[bobinski]

I watch a video of a chap who has been involved with endurance athletes for many many years. He used cross country skiing as the example along with ultra endurance runners, cyclists too.

I Liked the observation that Pro cyclists train mostly at 197W

Marit Bjørgen, one of the greatest skiers ever along with other top athletes did around 80% very low intensity and 20% HIT.

I take from it, that most of your riding should be easy, whether for 1hour, 3 hours or 5 hours. Only do HIT when fully recovered and motivated to work really hard. I suppose it all depends on how structured you want to make the schedule. Commuting is a good way to get lots of easy rides with racing as the HIT. or doing a designed HIT workout.

Ill dig out the video and add to my comment

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MALsI0mJ09I&feature=emb_logo

I don’t think it necessarily follows that a race is the same as a hit workout. It could effectively be the equivalent of 2x 20 say depending on length of race. That’s not the same as a high intensity short duration anaerobic effort, rest repeat etc, the repeats being at different intensities.

 

[CXRAndy]

I don’t think it necessarily follows that a race is the same as a hit workout. It could effectively be the equivalent of 2x 20 say depending on length of race. That’s not the same as a high intensity short duration anaerobic effort, rest repeat etc, the repeats being at different intensities.

I agree to some extent Bob, races can be an easy or on the rivet. Id probably say a dedicated HIT matched to current FTP is better

 

[bridgy]

I watch a video of a chap who has been involved with endurance athletes for many many years. He used cross country skiing as the example along with ultra endurance runners, cyclists too.

I Liked the observation that Pro cyclists train mostly at 197W

Marit Bjørgen, one of the greatest skiers ever along with other top athletes did around 80% very low intensity and 20% HIT.

I take from it, that most of your riding should be easy, whether for 1hour, 3 hours or 5 hours. Only do HIT when fully recovered and motivated to work really hard. I suppose it all depends on how structured you want to make the schedule. Commuting is a good way to get lots of easy rides with racing as the HIT. or doing a designed HIT workout.

Ill dig out the video and add to my comment

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MALsI0mJ09I&feature=emb_logo

Yes, and how many hours a week do those guys do? (Clue: LOTS)

Most of the points that guy makes in the video (which I have seen before) are about elite athletes dong HUGE volumes of zone 2 and relatively less high intensity - which was the original point I made. He does say at the end that even time strapped amateurs like us might benefit from doing more low intensity stuff and maybe one hard effort a week. I fully accept this, and do agree that you shouldn't beast yourself in a race or hard workout EVERY time you ride your bike and I agree that's potentially a route to over training or giving up.

But that wasn't my point. My point was, if you are limited to say three 1 hour rides a week or less and as long as you are currently comfortable doing mostly high intensity in those three hours available, replacing the 3 (or less) hours of mostly high intensity with mostly zone 2 won't make you any fitter (you'll also burn fewer calories and put weight on too). Following the 80%/20% model that would be just one 30 minute workout or race per week for someone who did 3 hours a week, so no more league races for a start! However, if you're able to increase the length of time you train, building endurance with more time in zone 2, mixed with some high intensity sessions would probably be good.

If we're posting videos to support our points, watch Phil Gaimon's recent video about the base training pro's do paying particular attention to what he says at 1:38:


View: https://youtu.be/oVMBFw-kLzg?t=98

 

[bobinski]

Yes, and how many hours a week do those guys do? (Clue: LOTS)

Most of the points that guy makes in the video (which I have seen before) are about elite athletes dong HUGE volumes of zone 2 and relatively less high intensity - which was the original point I made. He does say at the end that even time strapped amateurs like us might benefit from doing more low intensity stuff and maybe one hard effort a week. I fully accept this, and do agree that you shouldn't beast yourself in a race or hard workout EVERY time you ride your bike and I agree that's potentially a route to over training or giving up.

But that wasn't my point. My point was, if you are limited to say three 1 hour rides a week or less and as long as you are currently comfortable doing mostly high intensity in those three hours available, replacing the 3 (or less) hours of mostly high intensity with mostly zone 2 won't make you any fitter (you'll also burn fewer calories and put weight on too). Following the 80%/20% model that would be just one 30 minute workout or race per week for someone who did 3 hours a week, so no more league races for a start! However, if you're able to increase the length of time you train, building endurance with more time in zone 2, mixed with some high intensity sessions would probably be good.

If we're posting videos to support our points, watch Phil Gaimon's recent video about the base training pro's do paying particular attention to what he says at 1:38:


View: https://youtu.be/oVMBFw-kLzg?t=98

I was gonna quote this too. Ex pro and having to get back to fitness after pretty nasty injury.

 

[bridgy]

races can be an easy

say again??

 

[bobinski]

I agree to some extent Bob, races can be an easy or on the rivet. Id probably say a dedicated HIT matched to current FTP is better

Andy, genuinely not looking to argue here ( and this may be what you meant anyway) but HIT should surely reflect somewhere between your 10s and 5 min power and not ftp? You might have an ftp of 250w, 5 min peak at 320w and a 10s sprint of 1000w.

 

[bridgy]

Andy, genuinely not looking to argue here ( and this may be what you meant anyway) but HIT should surely reflect somewhere between your 10s and 5 min power and not ftp? You might have an ftp of 250w, 5 min peak at 320w and a 10s sprint of 1000w.

He said matched to your FTP not at your FTP so I guess probably meant the same as you

 

[Whorty]

My only reservation with all this talk of more zone 2 rides is that it's not always made clear in articles that what is usually really meant is you should do LOTS of LONG zone 2 rides in addition to your few high intensity intervals and workouts. This is obviously fine for the pros and effectively builds endurance (and being in zone 2 allows them to train for longer) but for the time-limited amateur with work and family commitments this isn't always the case. For example if you can only manage 3 circa 1 hour rides a week, swapping a couple of these from races or high intensity workouts to zone 2 rides for the same overall amount of time on the bike I don't think will do much good - probably the opposite.

I'm not saying this is the case with you Carl, it's just something I think people should be aware of if they have limited time they can spend on the bike.

Yep, when the youtube lot talk about zone 2 sessions they're talking 3-4 hour long rides not just 1 hour. There was an article in Cycling Weekly recently that said, if you're time constrained, you're better off doing intervals/HIIT in the week and try to get a long weekend ride in if you can. If I do zone 2 I try to make it about 2 hours on the turbo, which similar (kind of) to 3 or so hours outside.

I just try to do what I can fit in, and what feels right for me. I like the high intensity workouts, but I also conscious that I don't over train so fit in some easier rides just to try and control my natural urge to chase every other cyclist on the roads down

 

[Brendan Parker]

I Liked the observation that Pro cyclists train mostly at 197W

How bizarre. Just rode around watopia waistband for a couple of hours and my av was 197w

 

[berty bassett]

🌵

 

[CXRAndy]

Yes, and how many hours a week do those guys do? (Clue: LOTS)

Most of the points that guy makes in the video (which I have seen before) are about elite athletes dong HUGE volumes of zone 2 and relatively less high intensity - which was the original point I made. He does say at the end that even time strapped amateurs like us might benefit from doing more low intensity stuff and maybe one hard effort a week. I fully accept this, and do agree that you shouldn't beast yourself in a race or hard workout EVERY time you ride your bike and I agree that's potentially a route to over training or giving up.

But that wasn't my point. My point was, if you are limited to say three 1 hour rides a week or less and as long as you are currently comfortable doing mostly high intensity in those three hours available, replacing the 3 (or less) hours of mostly high intensity with mostly zone 2 won't make you any fitter (you'll also burn fewer calories and put weight on too). Following the 80%/20% model that would be just one 30 minute workout or race per week for someone who did 3 hours a week, so no more league races for a start! However, if you're able to increase the length of time you train, building endurance with more time in zone 2, mixed with some high intensity sessions would probably be good.

If we're posting videos to support our points, watch Phil Gaimon's recent video about the base training pro's do paying particular attention to what he says at 1:38:


View: https://youtu.be/oVMBFw-kLzg?t=98

I dont thinks its about comparing the sheer volume like professional riders, but the ratio which has been proven. A dedicated amateur can get a decent number of hours in Z2 along with a bit if HIT.

If you are really time crunched and can only do, lets say 2 hours a week, then solely high intensity will keep alot of fitness.

 

[CXRAndy]

How bizarre. Just rode around watopia waistband for a couple of hours and my av was 197w

You're a Pro

 

[Whorty]

How bizarre. Just rode around watopia waistband for a couple of hours and my av was 197w

You're a pro in the making

Edit: Andy beat me to it

 

[bobinski]

He said matched to your FTP not at your FTP so I guess probably meant the same as you

🤔Perhaps. Not sure how you can match a HIT to ftp. Perhaps there’s an algorithm zwift use or they take it from your 5 and 10s efforts. Or not. Who knows?
4 weeks till I go to Nice and some of you will be pleased to know the other guys going are putting in steady z2 rides- I will let you know how it all goes 😁

 

[bobinski]

🌵

Looks like an imminent puncture fest 👍😁