Zwift Chat

[bridgy]

Definitely a few grey areas isn’t there!

I think you can argue the tron bike either way. One way is that it stops you thinking about whether or not you’re in optimal draft as there are no visual prompts. But on the other hand you could potentially be using loads more effort than you need to be as a bi product if that. If you think about it it can make a massive difference at the end of a race. The same as taking less turns, if any at the front can. Or if you are taking the same turns as someone else but he’s conserving more effort through better drafting skills.

You really are over-thinking it. At the end of the day if you're going too hard you'll overtake the guy in front if you're going too easy you'll start to drop back. Keep an eye on the watts and your position and that's all there is to it. On the tron bike if I'm right behind someone I just assume I'm in their draft - and take it from there. Whether my avatar changes position or not genuinely doesn't make much difference to me.

Either that or I was rubbish at drafting anyway and the tron bike doesn't make it any worse - yeah, probably that!

 

[CXRAndy]

Need pics and spec. I've not TT'd for a few years but enjoyed it when I did.

This is my bike, .Ive further changed the setup with new bars, arm rests with a conversion to Di2 Ive got to set it up and see if the position is comfortable and i can make power.

 

[bobinski]

Fwiw it’s wirth I tried to test the draft today. I won’t comment on visual cues given I was using the Tron bike.
Pace was pretty much 3-3.2 w at front occasionally settling down to just under 3w . I could stay in draft at 2.4-2.6w. Any thing over 2.7 would see me edging towards the front. 3w often saw me at the front and I had to ease off pretty quick.
I occasionally slipped off to the side and tried to work out if I got stuck to a rider. I tried accelerating and easing to see which was more likely to see me fall back into the pack. Bear in mind the pack was well over 100 riders. Easing and acceleration seemed to be equally likley to see me back in the pack. The delay was never more than 3 seconds.
There was lot of talk within the pack about drafting and the consensus was the more you ride in a pack the more you come to use the visual cues including w/k the more successful you will be staying in the draft. This is especially so if youvrace a lot and come to know cat riders weights meaning their w/k number in the screen becomes v important.

 

[<Tommy>]

You really are over-thinking it. At the end of the day if you're going too hard you'll overtake the guy in front if you're going too easy you'll start to drop back. Keep an eye on the watts and your position and that's all there is to it. On the tron bike if I'm right behind someone I just assume I'm in their draft - and take it from there. Whether my avatar changes position or not genuinely doesn't make much difference to me.

Either that or I was rubbish at drafting anyway and the tron bike doesn't make it any worse - yeah, probably that!

Ha! It is entirely possible I’m over thinking it. BUT.... we still haven’t found a definitive answer!

 

[bridgy]

Stybar's attack at the end of Omloop Het Nieuwsblad - 507 watts for one and a half minutes*

I can barely manage 10 seconds of that

N.B. after 200km!!

 

[<Tommy>]

Fwiw it’s wirth I tried to test the draft today. I won’t comment on visual cues given I was using the Tron bike.
Pace was pretty much 3-3.2 w at front occasionally settling down to just under 3w . I could stay in draft at 2.4-2.6w. Any thing over 2.7 would see me edging towards the front. 3w often saw me at the front and I had to ease off pretty quick.
I occasionally slipped off to the side and tried to work out if I got stuck to a rider. I tried accelerating and easing to see which was more likely to see me fall back into the pack. Bear in mind the pack was well over 100 riders. Easing and acceleration seemed to be equally likley to see me back in the pack. The delay was never more than 3 seconds.
There was lot of talk within the pack about drafting and the consensus was the more you ride in a pack the more you come to use the visual cues including w/k the more successful you will be staying in the draft. This is especially so if youvrace a lot and come to know cat riders weights meaning their w/k number in the screen becomes v important.

I mentioned earlier I found myself comparing my w/kg with Lars and Andy’s to try and gage out our relative efforts. And knowing there weights roughly did give me a very rough idea of where we were at. BUT... surely we can do better than that! C’mon Zwift!

The asterix next to this entire debate I have co created is that I’m still very new to all this racing malarkey on Zwift. And part of how I get to grips with anything is breaking it down until I understand it. I’m sure as I race more this stuff will become much more intuitive.

 

[CXRAndy]

I'll give you some clues Tommy, sub 2.7 Im cruising, 3 im working reasonably hard. but can sustain for long periods. 4+ im gunning it that is a wattage range 250-370W.

 

[CXRAndy]

Classic season-yay

Love watching these power house riders

 

[<Tommy>]

I'll give you some clues Tommy, sub 2.7 Im cruising, 3 im working reasonably hard. but can sustain for long periods. 4+ im gunning it that is a wattage range 250-370W.

All good info

But it’s less about your general thresholds, more about your weight relative to mine. With this info it gives an idea of how much power we are each having to put down while going along together. This info allows you to know how effectively you are drafting.

 

[Whorty]

All good info

But it’s less about your general thresholds, more about your weight relative to mine. With this info it gives an idea of how much power we are each having to put down while going along together. This info allows you to know how effectively you are drafting.

A sneaky trick is on the app select another zwift rider then you can watch their power output rather than just w/kg on the screen. I do this in a group if I identify a rider to follow or who looks strong. I can see how hard they are working. Can't see their hr which is a shame but I can at least see when they start to crank up the power.

 

[Norry1]

This is my bike, .Ive further changed the setup with new bars, arm rests with a conversion to Di2 Ive got to set it up and see if the position is comfortable and i can make power.

Looks awesome

 

[JLaw]

Yes, sure is. In my race yesterday I was in a group of about 20 which wittled down to about 12-15 with 2 km to go. I was towards the back of the group (we had just come up Whitehall climb and the stronger riders were stretching the group). We hit the Strand OK and I'm behind 2 riders, and in their draft, that get caught in the sticky draft of a slower rider we're trying to pass. That split second created a gap to the group. I pulled past the 2 guys I was drafting but by now I was 10 metres back. I pushed really hard to get back on but even pushing over 300 watts they were pulling away, even though when I was in the group 230 had me moving at their pace. I ended up losing 11 seconds to the guys who came 1st and 2nd in C cat that I was tracking in the group

That hurts so much, particularly when it's the difference between having a shot at the win. I feel your pain...

 

[JLaw]

What I don't get though, is how it doesn't take account of the Cat you're racing in. Looks like to improve I'll have to beat some quality competitors

No clue how the categories fit into it. Probably best to think of the point system as some kind of measurement within the given category -- there's no way I'm on par with anyone outside of D right now regardless of how few points I have.

I guess it's nice that Jonathan and I are both near the top of D though.

 

[JLaw]

I'll give you some clues Tommy, sub 2.7 Im cruising, 3 im working reasonably hard. but can sustain for long periods. 4+ im gunning it that is a wattage range 250-370W.

If I'm drafting with the same group for an extended period of time I can usually estimate a reasonable range to stick. Right now that range tends to be higher than is comfortable, probably because I'm finding myself in mixed C/D groups. Thus, I feel like I'm constantly near the back pulsing between slight recovery and steady state to stay with the pack. I'm usually conscious to try and keep at least one rider behind me so that if I fall off a bit there's at least some chance they'll pull me back on -- happened several times Thursday.

 

[bobinski]

I mentioned earlier I found myself comparing my w/kg with Lars and Andy’s to try and gage out our relative efforts. And knowing there weights roughly did give me a very rough idea of where we were at. BUT... surely we can do better than that! C’mon Zwift!

The asterix next to this entire debate I have co created is that I’m still very new to all this racing malarkey on Zwift. And part of how I get to grips with anything is breaking it down until I understand it. I’m sure as I race more this stuff will become much more intuitive.

Yeah, I think you just need some audio cues like “ go faster Tommy...get your ass in the draft... don’t let the little one get away!”
Perhaps that’s something Zwift could sell you in that pretty useless shop?