wotsit..

[roadiewill]

so...

 

[asterix]

From experience, saddle too high and the pain will be felt behind the knee; saddle too low and it's the front.

I think my new bike is set up ok now and my leg is only just straight with heel on pedal at maximum distance (c. 5 o'clock position). Because the back-of-the-knee pain is worst, I prefer to start from too low a saddle rather than set it too high. When I bought the bike, the shop had set it up on the low side and I think that is sensible for an off-the-peg bike whereas the custom build Roberts didn't need any tweaks of that sort.

All I need to do now is break the Brooks in

 

[Dave5N]

Incorrect. But feel free to use that for yourself.

The point is that there are no absolutes in bike fit so the advice I've forwarded will indeed get most people within a centimetre or so. Are you claiming your "slightly bent w/ heel" is more accurate?

No, I'm claiming that 'within a centimetre or so' is not good enough. My starting point is a good starting point and works well week in week out with very many riders.

So there.

 

[asterix]

..but if it is a starting point then, Shirley it permits a certain amount of further adjustment?

 

[Cubist]

so...

Yes Will, a tailor would measure from the middle of your crotch to the floor in stockinged feet. I have no doubt that the experts will correct me when it comes to bike fitting, as it will differ depending on how thick the soles of your cycling shoes are.
If you measure to your nuts, well, lets just say some six-footers would only have a 22" inside leg.....

 

[Randochap]

No, I'm claiming that 'within a centimetre or so' is not good enough. My starting point is a good starting point and works well week in week out with very many riders.

So there.

So yours is a "starting point" as well, then. How much closer is it -- milimetres please! -- than other guidelines?

The fact is, no starting point is perfect. No one (not even the irrefutable Dave5N) can say with absolute certainty what another person's "perfect" saddle height is. Hence, my qualifier "within a cm or so". Only an educated rider can pinpoint their own saddle height. An experienced cyclist like myself can give advice, based on my (40+) years in the saddle, helping other cyclists professionally and info condensed from the lexicon of fitting lore.

The most universally accepted way to roughly fit someone to a bike is by having them put their heel on the pedal at 6 O'clock. The leg should be straight. This is how I send prospective buyers off on a test ride. Many will complain the saddle is too high ... not because of actual pedalling discomfort, but because they've been used to sitting on bikes with their feet flat on the ground! It's their first ever lesson in proper bike fit.

This will, in fact, get most recreational bike riders where they need to be.

The Lemond formula will usually dial things in closer -- for me, within a couple of milimetres. Keep in mind that it must be adjusted for the type of saddle you use, as well. For instance, on my bikes with Brooks saddles, I have the post up .5 cm higher, because the Brooks sag under my weight more than my Selle Italias.

Now, how do you come up with "inseam? Not like a tailor; which is why I prefer the term "standover."

Stand with bare feet 6 inches apart, facing a wall. Take a good sized hardcover book and use it as a "square," pushing it firmly into your perinium (not your nuts, roadiewill) and squaring the front of the book on the wall. Measure (help from friendly female?) from the floor to the top of the book spine. Do this several times and split the dif. That's your standover. Multiply by .883.

No other scale will get you closer, in my experience. Once you are experienced enough to analyse your own style/biomechanical idiosyncrasies, you might modify the formula (as jimboalee has, because he has learned his pedal shoe/combo requires it).

If you have access to a good fitter, make an appointment.

Note that racing fitters will likely set you up a bit high for recreational or long-distance cycling.

 

[Dave5N]

Yawn

 

[Dave5N]

..but if it is a starting point then, Shirley it permits a certain amount of further adjustment?

AYe. It's a starting point. I watch the rider riding next.

 

[Randochap]

Yawn

Notice how Dave5N, whenever he's caught out, suddenly comes down with a severe case of narcolepsy. My theory is he's dozing most of the time, which is why his advice can't be trusted.

While I'm at it, here's more on why his advice on saddle height is dead wrong (in fact barse ackwards):

If you tell someone to have their leg "slightly bent" at 6 'Oclock with their heel on the pedal, that will in fact give the most imprecise fitting.

Think about it. "Slightly bent" is a very ambiguous term itself. "Straight" however is much less prone to misinterpretation. That's why we choose the heel on the pedal/straight leg approach ... because, when the foot is placed properly -- ball of foot/metatarsal over pedal spindle -- you will then have the percentage of slight bend needed for comfortable and efficient pedalling.

If you followed the imprecise "bent leg" advice with your heel on the pedal, it's guaranteed your saddle would end up too low and you'd be asking for knee issues over the long term.

Incedentally, here's another interesting way to find a ballpark saddle height:

Put your arm over the bike, with the apex of the saddle in your armpit. Reach down to the BB and extend your fingers. The tip of your middle finger should reach the spindle centre. It's amazing how close this will come to most to other technical measurements. I hear Indian bike rental guys use this method!

That's all for now.

On edit: BTW, no gender-centricity meant by comment in last post (directed at a reader with testicles). The above method works equally well for women cyclists. That particular part of the anotomy (perinium) is gender neutral. If you like, get a male assistant to help w/ measurements ... assuming you are ... ho boy this can get complicated ....

 

[Dave5N]

It's not narcolepsy, it's because you are a tedious, self-important old bore.

 

[Dave5N]

Notice how Dave5N, whenever he's caught out, suddenly comes down with a severe case of narcolepsy. My theory is he's dozing most of the time, which is why his advice can't be trusted.

While I'm at it, here's more on why his advice on saddle height is dead wrong (in fact barse ackwards):

If you tell someone to have their leg "slightly bent" at 6 'Oclock with their heel on the pedal, that will in fact give the most imprecise fitting.

Think about it. "Slightly bent" is a very ambiguous term itself. "Straight" however is much less prone to misinterpretation. That's why we choose the heel on the pedal/straight leg approach ... because, when the foot is placed properly -- ball of foot/metatarsal over pedal spindle -- you will then have the percentage of slight bend needed for comfortable and efficient pedalling.

If you followed the imprecise "bent leg" advice with your heel on the pedal, it's guaranteed your saddle would end up too low and you'd be asking for knee issues over the long term.

Incedentally, here's another interesting way to find a ballpark saddle height:

Put your arm over the bike, with the apex of the saddle in your armpit. Reach down to the BB and extend your fingers. The tip of your middle finger should reach the spindle centre. It's amazing how close this will come to most to other technical measurements. I hear Indian bike rental guys use this method!

That's all for now.

On edit: BTW, no gender-centricity meant by comment in last post (directed at a reader with testicles). The above method works equally well for women cyclists. That particular part of the anotomy (perinium) is gender neutral. If you like, get a male assistant to help w/ measurements ... assuming you are ... ho boy this can get complicated ....

I rest my case.

 

[Randochap]

It's not narcolepsy, it's because you are a tedious, self-important old bore.

I'm quite happy to own my prodigious ego and advanced age.

Let's see you face up to the fact that you are a poor sport, don't know when to throw in the towel (due to your inflated ego) and hide behind internet anonymity to stalk people who challenge your sense of self importance.

This the simple answer to the OP's question was answered long ago.

 

[youngoldbloke]

Randochap - thanks for your clear informative posts. Agree - straight leg, heel on pedal at 6 o'clock is correct, and also the inside leg measuring technique you describe is the way to do it. Another guide to saddle height I have come across uses inside leg x 1.09 to give distance to pedal spindle centre (crank aligned with seat tube).

 

[ASC1951]

Well I'm probably as old and pompous as Randochap but I have never used his "0.8 x the width of your prostate" for the very obvious reason that it takes no account of the shoes you cycle in or the saddle you cycle on.

No, the best way is to sit on the actual saddle and wear the actual shoes, as Dave5N says - except that the measurement is definitely with a straight leg to heel. That gives you the correct 'slightly bent' posture when the foot is relocated in the cleats.

 

[Dave5N]

I'm quite happy to own my prodigious ego and advanced age.

Let's see you face up to the fact that you are a poor sport, don't know when to throw in the towel (due to your inflated ego) and hide behind internet anonymity to stalk people who challenge your sense of self importance.

This the simple answer to the OP's question was answered long ago.

Do I? Not very anonymous, my username.