Women's inclusion in cycling clubs

[matticus]

I'm going to start a Backwards Cycling Club. Just to confuse everyone next time this is discussed

https://bgfitclub.com/workout/back-it-up-with-backward-cycling/

 

[Dogtrousers]

I think we may need a separate thread entitled "Men Bellyaching That Those Clubs Over There Are Doing It All Wrong"

But we may have already had one of those

 

[Milzy]

We have some old gammons on mixed rides who are saying things like “ohhh look at the ar$e on that” etc. Totally out of order. They could at least be discreet if they can’t help themselves. No wonder cycling doesn’t attract enough women.

 

[yello]

One of the most disturbing things for me on @PaulSB 's list of what was putting women off was 'the male gaze'

I know how I felt when I first started wearing lycra and I will admit to feeling self conscious. That gave me a negligible insight to part of the problem, but what it's like to be 'checked out' 24/7, I really can't imagine. I see it everywhere; supermarkets, wherever. Some guys just can't help themselves it seems. I've even been with my wife when she's been eyed up (and, no, it doesn't make me feel 'proud', or whatever, if anyone feels like making that 'joke') It frankly appals me.

I've been walking down the street and unintentionally caught the eye of a passing women. Her eyes drop immediately to the pavement, to avoid further contact. It makes me feel awful. But worse, I feel ashamed that she feels the need to do that. I have intimidated her, not me personally but my gender.

It really does not surprise me that some women want nothing at all to do with men and/or a predominantly male club. And I have to say, at the risk of inflaming the men's club, I can understand why - and it is men's fault. Face it guys, we're neanderthals sometimes.

Edit: sorry if I'm sounding overly emotional, it's just something that angers me

 

[matticus]

It really does not surprise me that some women want nothing at all to do with men and/or a predominantly male club. And I have to say, at the risk of inflaming the men's club, I can understand why - and it is men's fault. Face it guys, we're neanderthals sometimes.

So what's your solution?

Blinkers? Iodine tabs in bidons?

 

[mjr]

So what's your solution?

Blinkers? Iodine tabs in bidons?

Don't tempt me. Strychnine in the bidons of the ones @Milzy mentions sounds good right now.

 

[yello]

So what's your solution?
Blinkers? Iodine tabs in bidons?

Basically, learn not to do it. We've learnt many things over the generations, so it's not beyond us to curtail it. You can appreciate without leering. Seriously, it starts within every single one of us. Stop defending it is as 'human biology' or 'natural' or whatever, and start asking yourself what you're doing. There are guys that don't do it so there's no excuse for the rest of us.

Edited for spelling

 

[mudsticks]

I’m new to cycling in my mind at least (13 years) I’m a father of two daughters and a granddaughter and I’m genuinely surprised there is or needs to be any separation or differences between male and female club riders we’re all just equal people all with different skills and abilities, again my opinion but until people stop classifying themselves when will this BS end.

Not sure where you've been but there has been exclusionary and derogatory language used about women and their abilities for centuries .

Added to some belief that appraisal of their appearance, or attractiveness is in some way welcome from complete strangers.

These things are done to them by men, specifically because they are women.


Things like active sports have historically been portrayed as the preserve of men.

Often very unhelpful comments will be made by men, about women, if they participate.

Often around appearance, or performance.


No surprise really then that many women have absorbed these attitudes, and even language themselves.
They're already starting on the back foot in terms of confidence.

Have to start from a place where they don't see role models of other women participating (at all levels) in what has been trad male spheres .

So they often suffer with some kind of
'imposter syndrome'

Thankfully that's changing a bit now, but you still hear some thoughtless, or even deliberately harmful language and attitudes..

It's up to the guys to change all that
If they want women joining mixed sex clubs.

So what's your solution?

Blinkers? Iodine tabs in bidons?

We can tell the difference between being 'eyed up'.

And just being 'seen' as fellow human beings .

If guys really can't tell whether they're gaze is making others uncomfortable or not , then maybe they'd be better off averting their own eyes

 

[matticus]

Basically, learn not to do it. We've learnt many things over the generations, so it's not beyond us to curtail it. You can appreciate without leering. Seriously, it starts within every single one of us. Stop defending it is as 'human biology' or 'natural' or whatever, and start asking your what you're doing. There are guys that don't do it so there's no excuse for the rest of us.

Well I don't do it. So i'm not massively interested in stopping, or curtailing it, and I don't need an excuse.

 

[yello]

Well I don't do it. So i'm not massively interested in stopping, or curtailing it, and I don't need an excuse.

As I said, I readily accept that some men don't do it. Indeed, I think it gives hope because it shows it can be done and is beyond none of us. (Though, I have to ask, how many men would think it of themselves? And I am not implying you're amongst them btw) But you really ought be interested in stopping it in others.

It is a male problem and, as such, up to us to start asking the questions of ourselves and calling out the behaviour of other males. Whether we like it or not, or consider ourselves to be part of the problem, it is up to us to own it and call it out - or, at the very least, not endorse it either tacitly or with silence.

 

[matticus]

As I said, I readily accept that some men don't do it. Indeed, I think it gives hope because it shows it can be done and is beyond none of us. (Though, I have to ask, how many men would think it of themselves? And I am not implying you're amongst them btw) But you really ought be interested in stopping it in others.

It is a male problem and, as such, up to us to start asking the questions of ourselves and calling out the behaviour of other males. Whether we like it or not, or consider ourselves to be part of the problem, it is up to us to own it and call it out - or, at the very least, not endorse it either tacitly or with silence.

I hereby "call it out", if anyone reading this is doing it. You have been told by matticus - stop it!

 

[yello]

I hereby "call it out", if anyone reading this is doing it. You have been told by matticus - stop it!

Way to go. Seriously. Put it into broader practice, take it on the streets!

 

[All uphill]

Thanks @yello you have said it better than I ever could.

Along with the appraisal look I am increasingly (and belatedly) aware of all the "funny" stories that just happen to have a "female" in the role of idiot. Sure we also hear of men close-passing, but it seems to me that it's far more frequently a woman cast in that role.

 

[Ian H]

Exeter Wheelers seem to do a reasonable job. We have women on the committee, women organising, and women riding & racing. It's certainly not perfect, and we're nowhere near 50% female membership. There have been some fairly frank exchanges at meetings, but no-one, as far as I can recall, has thrown their toys out of the pram.

As far as club runs go, we have a variety, but the summer chaingangs do move to evens (20mph average) and are race-training events.

 

[Dec66]

Are your cycling clubs dealing with this and, if they are, how?

Cycling has always been male dominated. There's very little doubt about that. A lot of clubs seem to be talking a lot about inclusion and how much they want to increase the number of female members. Which is great, only to find out that at the end of the day, they don't do much at all.

Recently my partner started to get interested in cycling and she was so happy when she found out about an initiative from a local cycling club aimed at beginner female cyclists. Big social media announcements, very promising statements and good intentions. All seemed promising and interesting.

Anyways, she got disappointed straightaway when all this club was doing was:
- just inviting female riders to the usual 50-60 miles weekend social rides (not easy if you are a beginner)
- talking shite and showcase some of the worst examples of toxic masculinity I've seen on the club's series of zwift challenges

Is this just a case of a particularly bad club or do you guys find the same situation in general?

I'm with Penge CC. No issues with inclusivity, at all.

Seems astonishing that there still would be in 2021, but I guess toxic masculinity is like eczema, a bugger to shift.