Women's inclusion in cycling clubs

[yello]

So what are the practical implications of that reported point of view for male dominated cycling clubs?

That's a good question. I don't know the answer but I respected where the pov was coming from, what it alluded to. Perhaps what @PaulSB outlined above is the start of an approach.

Perhaps an answer (and only one possibility) is for guys to butt out completely and let women run their own clubs. Doesn't speak much to inclusivity though.

 

[PaulSB]

Accelerated? Increased? Sped up?

Yes, I guess all are descriptive of a group becoming faster so I'm at a bit of a loss as to why you would pick out my use of "improved" as your choices pretty much describe the same thing.

But it is not necessarily an improvement in the ride. Indeed, it may make it inaccessible to some.

I said the riders had improved I did not say the ride had improved. Does it mean the ride has improved? It depends on the measure I suppose. Increased speed and stamina opens up new possibilities leading to quieter, more scenic routes, better views, alternative cafes for example. I know for this particular ride people who had stopped using it have returned so possibly it is seen as an overall improvement by those individuals.

Inaccessible to some? Yes but no one has stopped using the ride, others have returned but it is harder for riders in the group which rides at 12/13 to make the jump. The solution? Perhaps accept one needs to put a little extra effort in for a few weeks. Create a new ride, step forward and offer to put on a group which is going to ride at 14/15. It's not a difficult task and people should not expect to have everything handed to them on a plate.

I assume better means faster to you, but it could mean more efficient, less straining, able to ride steeper max gradients, or other things.

But this may be ableism more than sexism so I guess we are straying offtopic.

Better does not mean faster to me because I recognise all cyclists are good cyclists, no one is better than another. Through natural ability, training, experience and host of other factors some riders are able to ride further, faster, climb harder etc. than others. It doesn't make them better simply faster. As for my own improvement as a climber, yes I measure it in terms of speed on climbs I know well but also by successfully tackling climbs which would previously have been a significant challenge. I know this increase in speed and ability to tackle harder climbs is because I have improved and am better than I used. It comes through better technique resulting in greater efficiency, less straining, greater endurance and so on. Better is in relation to myself, I am not better than anyone else.

 

[mudsticks]

That's a good question. I don't know the answer but I respected where the pov was coming from, what it alluded to. Perhaps what @PaulSB outlined above is the start of an approach.

Perhaps an answer (and only one possibility) is for guys to butt out completely and let women run their own clubs. Doesn't speak much to inclusivity though.

I think in truth it's going to be a blended, multistranded approach, to tackling this.

Really listening to concerns raised, in good faith.

Acknowledge whats being said, but not necessarily leaping in to try to 'fix' or change things in a heavy handed way.

Not imagining that change will come overnight, but neither thinking that a problem is intractable if it's not fixed overnight.

As ever it's about understanding, and awareness.


And of course we don't need permission to run our own groups, many of us already do that.

 

[derrick]

I'm confused now, are you talking about club members or forum members?

I was talking about the club i belong to. but know you mention it i think we may have some on here as well.

 

[fair weather cyclist]

– there will be cake

Lol...speaking of cake...I forgot to mention a detail about the "beginners" ride my partner took part in

50 miles beginners ride. They did stop for cake and coffee....at mile 45.

 

[mjr]

Yes, I guess all are descriptive of a group becoming faster so I'm at a bit of a loss as to why you would pick out my use of "improved" as your choices pretty much describe the same thing.

[...] Perhaps accept one needs to put a little extra effort in for a few weeks.

I'm not going to respond to all of it and continue dragging this off-topic, but it ain't about effort for some people. They can put in as much effort as they like and their physical situation means they will not get faster. Others can actually put in extra effort, maybe can be egged on by the talk of "faster"="improved", but then will be going home in under blue lights or in a box. This does not mean they are bad or worse or unable to improve.

Create a new ride, step forward and offer to put on a group which is going to ride at 14/15. It's not a difficult task and people should not expect to have everything handed to them on a plate.

I'm with you but "it's not a difficult task" is rather contradicted by what look like multiday courses (at £135 per day) on ride organising from BC and CUK, among other things, which I think does scare many people out of doing it.

 

[PaulSB]

I'm not going to respond to all of it and continue dragging this off-topic, but it ain't about effort for some people. They can put in as much effort as they like and their physical situation means they will not get faster. Others can actually put in extra effort, maybe can be egged on by the talk of "faster"="improved", but then will be going home in under blue lights or in a box. This does not mean they are bad or worse or unable to improve.

It's you who keeps equating faster with improved. I've already explained my view which you don't seem to accept.

I'm with you but "it's not a difficult task" is rather contradicted by what look like multiday courses (at £135 per day) on ride organising from BC and CUK, among other things, which I think does scare many people out of doing it.

No one needs to attend a ride leaders course to put on a ride. These courses have nothing to do with club riding. I don't know anyone who "leads" a ride who has attended such a course. In my club we discourage the whole concept of ride leaders. They aren't needed and having people in this role creates difficulties for the club, ride participants and the smooth running of a ride or rides.

From all you've said in this thread and others it seems to me you either have an issue with cycle clubs or perhaps don't understand how they work.

 

[mjr]

I still don't agree on speed but am dropping that now.

From all you've said in this thread and others it seems to me you either have an issue with cycle clubs or perhaps don't understand how they work.

Except for going on group rides once or twice a week!

I think it sounds like you have ridden with one club you like but I have ridden with several and still sometimes go as a guest to some, so I know there are many sorts of club out there and sadly many clubs are pale, male and/or stale with no desire to change.

 

[Dogtrousers]

@SydZ Did she complete the ironman? If so

 

[yello]

In my final years in London, I rode a number of audaxes with a women who competed in age-group triathlon (it would have been over 50 or 55 then) She was training for a Hawaii Ironman event as I recall. I've just googled and she came in 9th in the over 60s world final 4 years later!

 

[itboffin]

I’m new to cycling in my mind at least (13 years) I’m a father of two daughters and a granddaughter and I’m genuinely surprised there is or needs to be any separation or differences between male and female club riders we’re all just equal people all with different skills and abilities, again my opinion but until people stop classifying themselves when will this BS end.

 

[PaulSB]

I still don't agree on speed but am dropping that now.

Except for going on group rides once or twice a week!

I think it sounds like you have ridden with one club you like but I have ridden with several and still sometimes go as a guest to some, so I know there are many sorts of club out there and sadly many clubs are pale, male and/or stale with no desire to change.

I've ridden with three clubs my current one being the best of the lot. If you haven't ridden with a forward thinking club I can understand why you hold the views you do.

 

[PaulSB]

I’m new to cycling in my mind at least (13 years) I’m a father of two daughters and a granddaughter and I’m genuinely surprised there is or needs to be any separation or differences between male and female club riders we’re all just equal people all with different skills and abilities, again my opinion but until people stop classifying themselves when will this BS end.

You're absolutely right there should be no need for separation but it must be acknowledged for some women entering what is perceived as, and in truth is, a male dominated sport being able to ride in a comfortable environment with other women is very important. It's a sad reflection of our society.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

Because they're aiming these at 'stronger' riders.

Similar to the op's better half I've had problems finding a local group for my son to ride with. My club's 17-18mph average 'fast' ride is too slow. Other groups and clubs won't take him because he's under 18 and/or their riders might be embarrassed (according to one response ).

It took one of his ex-coaches asking very nicely to the leader of another club's 20+ mph fast group to get a ride. Needless to say he went, coped fine, and has joined them as a thank-you. He takes a parental consent form with him and the ride leader has my contact details.

That doesn’t explain why the longer rides are at a faster pace than shorter. If the pace isn’t high enough for stronger riders why not have a ride at half distance of the longer one and 2 mph faster?

 

[mjr]

I've ridden with three clubs my current one being the best of the lot. If you haven't ridden with a forward thinking club I can understand why you hold the views you do.

My current group is fine, thanks.

But if you haven't ridden with a backwards club, I can understand why you don't seem to realise the problems!