Woman cyclist killed in Victoria (tipper truck)

[zimzum42]

[QUOTE 3563353, member: 9609"]Out of curiosity, your post appeared about 5 hours after you sent it - I have noticed this before with your posts they can often arrive quite some time latter, is it a mobile phone thing ?[/QUOTE]
It means his posts are moderated - he's Spindrift, a previously banned member, and he has form for being unnecessarily offensive...

 

[theclaud]

It means his posts are moderated - he's Spindrift, a previously banned member, and he has form for being unnecessarily offensive...

As opposed to form for backseat moderating, childishly repetitious wind-uppery, and having a permanent strop with imaginary Lefties, you mean? He also upholds the memory of cyclists killed on the roads.

 

[fimm]

Good way of putting it, but imo it's not going to happen in our lifetime in this country.
This not in the government plans, not what the general public sets its priorities on.
Pat 5mph sprinting at the lights, keeping up with traffic a' la Cyclecraft text book of national cycling standard is not compatible, even impossible to achieve.
Heck, the likes of me are harassed by other, faster cyclist, never mind motorized traffic.
Separate infrastructures would help to no end, but the faster cyclists (not as fast as cars though, so are getting harassed in their cycling too) don't want these infrastructures.
The government does not want to spend money on them either, nay, let's rather equip the cyclists to go into daily battle with motorized traffic, get them some training, drivers will understand why that cyclist rides in the middle of the road.
Meanwhile, the general public, cyclists (me too!) included, expect their Tesco, Amazon, Parcelforce deliveries to arrive promptly and cheaply.
The reality is what it is, us less skilled cyclist must, in the current state of affairs, stay clear of large vehicles and avoid fast flowing traffic.
A bit ot, not relevant to tipper trucks: I believe that aggressive driving could be curbed by social awareness, it should be made unacceptable, like drink driving.

Pat, that's one of the best summaries of the tensions and complexities of the situation we have now I've ever read here or anywhere else.

 

[Origamist]

lower smaller cabs, yes great idea and could work for in the city , but a lot of stuff comes long distance and i can't see the smaller lower cabs working on motorways ( which is where lorries really do belong) so the argument could be for marshalling yards where the long distance big trucks get off loaded onto smaller ones , but is there the space around london ( and all major cites in all honesty ) for this ? No there isn't, and again the costs rise and these get passed on to ??

there is also the drip down effect in that big firms will get the smaller cabs but smaller firms who can't afford to replace a fleet will take a while to get to smaller cabs as they come from the larger companies . so it isn't going to happen over 12 months, 18 months, or even 2 years. maybe 5 to 10 years.

The EU were planning on allowing new HGV cab designs in 2017/18, but France and Sweden (read Renault and Volvo) objected on competition and life-cycle grounds. This has meant that the regulations governing cab length and, by extension, improved safety, will not now be brought in to 2022. This is unfortunate to say the least.

As I understand it, the issue of visibility and a lower seat height for HGVs using major roads is not a vexatious issue.

 

[zimzum42]

As opposed to form for backseat moderating, childishly repetitious wind-uppery, and having a permanent strop with imaginary Lefties, you mean? He also upholds the memory of cyclists killed on the roads.

 

[zimzum42]

Your standard admission of having run out of argument.

What's the point of arguing with people who seem to think that not adhering to their views on transport policy equates to dishonouring a victim of a road collision.
I don't happen to think that we should all have free, unfettered access to the road on a bike, but that makes me an antichrist on a forum like this, and it'll be the same if I express an opinion on this specific case again (There's a lot of factors that point to it being the cyclist's fault).
We've been over this before, but these threads would be pointless if it were just a long list of condolences, but if we actually try to discuss the thing it gets locked because we're being disrespectful.
FWIW, I think that we have to accept that things like this will happen in London, we ought to do what we can to prevent such things, but there's a limit to what can be done if we are to maintain a city like this. That makes some people get upset with me, but that's not too steep a price to pay

 

[theclaud]

I don't happen to think that we should all have free, unfettered access to the road on a bike, but that makes me an antichrist on a forum like this,

Actually it makes you entirely conventional. Sorry to disappoint the requirements of your self-image.

 

[zimzum42]

Actually it makes you entirely conventional. Sorry to disappoint the requirements of your self-image.

I should have added 'in the eyes of some'...

I'll flog myself, no need to send Patrick...

 

[Origamist]

[QUOTE 3563476, member: 9609"]Low truck cabs could cause other problems, big lorries need to plan along way ahead.

I would stop productivity payments, drivers should be paid on time worked and not how much they shift - it is supposed to be illegal to structure pay that would encourage faster driving, but for reasons beyond me it would appear that load bonuses are common. On top of that start enforcing the road laws we currently have, and I think those two measures would calm things down a lot - certainly push up prices, but that would be a price worth paying.

@XRHYSX I'm sure you said recently you were on tippers at the moment - how is your pay structured?[/QUOTE]

This is not a serious issue - the problem is that there is a strict limit on cab lengths in the EU and this has meant that the driver in most European HGVs is above the engine, meaning visibility is deeply compromised. It is not a sick joke, but the shape of the current cab (cab over engine) is often referred to as a "flying coffin"

Furthermore, have you ever seen convoys of HGVs on the M6 tail-gating one another - how are they planning ahead from their lofty position?

 

[Pale Rider]

This is not a serious issue - the problem is that there is a strict limit on cab lengths in the EU and this has meant that the driver in most European HGVs is above the engine, meaning visibility is deeply compromised. It is not a sick joke, but the shape of the current cab (cab over engine) is often referred to as a "flying coffin"

Strictly, the limit is on the overall length of the lorry.

But the point is well made, the lorry operators want to use every foot of their allowed length as space for the load, so designing a cab to give good visibility takes a back seat - or it would if there was any room for one.

 

[srw]

Good way of putting it, but imo it's not going to happen in our lifetime in this country.

Yes it is - it's already happening. Go around central London keeping off the main roads (hell, go on many of the main roads if you want) and it's exactly like that. The pedestrian is king, closely followed by the bike rider. Everyone else defers to us.

 

[Origamist]

Strictly, the limit is on the overall length of the lorry.

But the point is well made, the lorry operators want to use every foot of their allowed length as space for the load, so designing a cab to give good visibility takes a back seat - or it would if there was any room for one.

I didn't realise myself until recently, but the cab length limit is 2.35m.

 

[Pale Rider]

I didn't realise myself until recently, but the cab length limit is 2.35m.

Interesting.

There are some lorries on our roads with long bonnet cabs/tractor units.

I'm sure I've seen rigid heavy duty recovery vehicles with long bonnets, and I've certainly seen artic tractor units of that type.

Edit: Perhaps the bonnet doesn't count as cab length.

Here's a couple of recovery vehicles operating in the south of England.

http://www.sanddcommercials.co.uk/fleet.php

 

[Origamist]

[QUOTE 3563548, member: 9609"]I think you would find most drivers would get into all manner of problems navigating a 60' truck through a town centre with the visibility from car height
its overall vehicle length not cab length
never heard of flying coffin before
Tailgating is dreadful driving and it is a complete puzzle to me why some drivers do it.[/QUOTE]

No one is suggesting that the seat height should be on par with a Ford Fiesta...

 

[Origamist]

[QUOTE 3563582, member: 9609"]that is the MINIMUM cab length[/QUOTE]

No, it's an indirect limit based on the overall regulated dimensions of HGVs. That's why they are so squeezed and brick shaped.