Woman cyclist killed in Victoria (tipper truck)

[XRHYSX]

Guess what Ive been driving for a few weeks... a tipper truck
Does that now make me a killer? If people stop needing houses then I wouldn't need to drive in and around in built up areas, if people are happy for building sites to operate thought the night we could drive at quite periods, as it is we can only work between 8am and 4pm and have to get a lot done in that time there is normally 4/5 tippers working on one, site running back and forth taking waste away and bring materials in,
just get off your high horse
Yes lorrys are dangerous so keep well away and read your highway code

 

[deptfordmarmoset]

Guess what Ive been driving for a few weeks... a tipper truck
Does that now make me a killer? If people stop needing houses then I wouldn't need to drive in and around in built up areas, if people are happy for building sites to operate thought the night we could drive at quite periods, as it is we can only work between 8am and 4pm and have to get a lot done in that time there is normally 4/5 tippers working on one, site running back and forth taking waste away and bring materials in,
just get off your high horse
Yes lorrys are dangerous so keep well away and read your highway code

Are you saying you drive dangerous vehicles under time pressure on the public roads?

 

[Markymark]

Guess what Ive been driving for a few weeks... a tipper truck
Does that now make me a killer? If people stop needing houses then I wouldn't need to drive in and around in built up areas, if people are happy for building sites to operate thought the night we could drive at quite periods, as it is we can only work between 8am and 4pm and have to get a lot done in that time there is normally 4/5 tippers working on one, site running back and forth taking waste away and bring materials in,
just get off your high horse
Yes lorrys are dangerous so keep well away and read your highway code

If you think you're dangerous maybe you should get someone to drive it properly that isn't so dangerous. I've seen it done well so maybe you could ask a better driver to teach you how.

 

[XRHYSX]

I drive as safely as I can at legal speeds (subject to weather/road conditions) just waiting for one of these ninja cyclists to appear under my wheels lol

 

[XRHYSX]

Are you saying you drive dangerous vehicles under time pressure on the public roads?

Yes it's called a job

 

[Glow worm]

I drive as safely as I can at legal speeds (subject to weather/road conditions) just waiting for one of these ninja cyclists to appear under my wheels lol

You do realise that this thread stems from a tragedy from which someone died and whose family/ friends could be reading? I suggest you put the keyboard down and have a little think about that before posting vile comments.

 

[Shaun]

Please give the tit-for-tat word twisting a rest. No one here has done anything wrong, regardless of the vehicle they travel to work on or use for their day job.

Driving a large vehicle for a living doesn't automatically make someone a reckless or dangerous person or endanger the lives of others, in the same way that using a bike to get around doesn't make you a red light jumping, headphone wearing, pavement riding, no-road-sense, helmetless, hazardous, traffic slowing, ninja.

 

[steveindenmark]

Having watched a recent clip on this forum of cyclist riding up the Inside of a tipper lorry. It is clear both lorry drivers and cyclists need educating about the dangers

I believe it is time the government started releasing public information films on the Tv as they did in the past.

Not all cyclists access cycling sites or probably pay much attention to accidents reported in the papers. There certainly is a case for restricting the hours tipper trucks use City centres and for having safety equipment installer.

 

[XRHYSX]

Look, all I'm trying to say is the world is a dangerous place,
people need to get some self preservation,
stairs are dangerous, should we ban them?
People get killed everyday by silly accidents and human error,
but if we were to ban everything that causes harm to anyone,
the world would be a very boring place

Personally I take great care around cyclists, being one myself, I give them as much room as possible, and hang back if a safe passing place is not available, but I also expect the same back when I'm making a turn.
we need to just get along, not just ban everything

 

[Twinks]

Are you saying you drive dangerous vehicles under time pressure on the public roads?

I would think that a lot of cyclists are under time pressure on public roads too. Especially ones who commute and especially ones who commute in busy cities. That's life!

A tipper lorry is dangerous if you get too close to it, it is very large and mobile, that doesn't make the driver a criminal. There's lots of danger on public roads.

We live in a world with these pressures. If you think a debate on a cycling forum is going to change it you're mistaken. So take care around HGVs, drop the attitude that it's them and us - lorry drivers want to go home to their families without having killed a cyclist - and stay safe.

You can blame Beeching for the vast amount of freight on the road but unless you reinstate the railways or persuade the entire population to do without the goods they desire it's here to stay.

 

[theclaud]

So take care around HGVs, drop the attitude that it's them and us - lorry drivers want to go home to their families without having killed a cyclist - and stay safe.

Yes - we know that, because they keep popping up to tell us so. What's odd is that, having said so, they then (almost to a man) fail to back our efforts to reduce the chances of them doing so, and are indeed almost universally hostile to the measures suggested. The industry is aware of the pressure upon it as it claims the lives of more and more pedestrians and cyclists. In response it has decided on a gamble - that instead of changing its practices to operate safely at all times in the urban environment and bearing the costs of doing so, it will avoid killing people by simply scaring them out of its way. The problem for the industry is that to pull this off it has had to acknowledge the extraordinary danger it presents to others. There is nothing reciprocal about this danger - it is all entirely one-way. Yet we have to endure, time and time again, drivers colluding with the industry that puts them in this traumatic position and arguing on behalf of the people who put them under pressure with inadequate pay and staffing, impossible schedules and vehicles unfit for purpose. It may be on the parallel thread that someone actually types, apparently with a straight face, that he wouldn't fancy having someone else in the cab (a childishly simple way to monitor nearside clearance, which also brings additional benefits when it comes to rest, loading and complex manoeuvres) because it would intrude on his me-time. It beggars belief.

There's another thing - the inevitable correlate of calling for 'better education' for cyclists (although, oddly, not pedestrians, who also get killed by lorries) serves the handy dual function of transferring responsibility onto the threatened parties and transforming the streets from a public realm into a professionalized environment where no one any longer has a right to be. Not only is shouting 'keep away from lorries - they are dangerous!' useless advice, because people are more often endangered by driver error or recklessness than their own; it is also not really education at all, but one big simplistic soundbite designed to prevent people using their own judgement, developing their skills and becoming authors of their own urban journeys. No-one who is serious about making towns and cities places for people could possibly advocate a road environment where one needs 'training' to stay alive, or where one cannot exploit the advantages of human-powered transport because our movements are proscribed by fear. However advanced we imagine our own roadcraft, we should not only allow for errors but welcome novices, bimblers, youngsters who imagine themselves indestructible, and harmlessly clueless dabblers. There is no endpoint at which vulnerability is eliminated - we need to make our roads safe for everyone.

 

[Pat "5mph"]

However advanced we imagine our own roadcraft, we should not only allow for errors but welcome novices, bimblers, youngsters who imagine themselves indestructible, and harmlessly clueless dabblers. There is no endpoint at which vulnerability is eliminated - we need to make our roads safe for everyone.

Good way of putting it, but imo it's not going to happen in our lifetime in this country.
This not in the government plans, not what the general public sets its priorities on.
Pat 5mph sprinting at the lights, keeping up with traffic a' la Cyclecraft text book of national cycling standard is not compatible, even impossible to achieve.
Heck, the likes of me are harassed by other, faster cyclist, never mind motorized traffic.
Separate infrastructures would help to no end, but the faster cyclists (not as fast as cars though, so are getting harassed in their cycling too) don't want these infrastructures.
The government does not want to spend money on them either, nay, let's rather equip the cyclists to go into daily battle with motorized traffic, get them some training, drivers will understand why that cyclist rides in the middle of the road.
Meanwhile, the general public, cyclists (me too!) included, expect their Tesco, Amazon, Parcelforce deliveries to arrive promptly and cheaply.
The reality is what it is, us less skilled cyclist must, in the current state of affairs, stay clear of large vehicles and avoid fast flowing traffic.
A bit ot, not relevant to tipper trucks: I believe that aggressive driving could be curbed by social awareness, it should be made unacceptable, like drink driving.

 

[theclaud]

Good way of putting it, but imo it's not going to happen in our lifetime in this country.
This not in the government plans, not what the general public sets its priorities on.
Pat 5mph sprinting at the lights, keeping up with traffic a' la Cyclecraft text book of national cycling standard is not compatible, even impossible to achieve.
Heck, the likes of me are harassed by other, faster cyclist, never mind motorized traffic.
Separate infrastructures would help to no end, but the faster cyclists (not as fast as cars though, so are getting harassed in their cycling too) don't want these infrastructures.
The government does not want to spend money on them either, nay, let's rather equip the cyclists to go into daily battle with motorized traffic, get them some training, drivers will understand why that cyclist rides in the middle of the road.
Meanwhile, the general public, cyclists (me too!) included, expect their Tesco, Amazon, Parcelforce deliveries to arrive promptly and cheaply.
The reality is what it is, us less skilled cyclist must, in the current state of affairs, stay clear of large vehicles and avoid fast flowing traffic.
A bit ot, not relevant to tipper trucks: I believe that aggressive driving could be curbed by social awareness, it should be made unacceptable, like drink driving.

I could repeat @User's oft-mentioned point - the way things are is not the way they have to be.

The tensions you identify are real, but the gamble I described above presents us with an opportunity. The industry is going out of its way to demonstrate that its vehicles are extraordinarily dangerous. They are doing half of our work for us. The task is to seize the rhetorical moment, and expose the assumptions beneath.

 

[Pat "5mph"]

The task is to seize the rhetorical moment, and expose the assumptions beneath.

Yes, but do you agree that we must also take care?
Sadly human error on both sides is costing cyclist lives.
In London it seems to be tipper trucks, here is more buses, taxis and fast delivery haulage vehicles. The roads are less congested, cars are faster.
For us here is relatively easy to avoid large vehicles, not so easy to avoid the speeding wvm.
Let's do both: tipper trucks and the likes take extra safety measures, cyclist avoid taking unnecessary risks.
Btw, have recently had many cycling fatalities on our rural roads, but that's for another thread.

 

[Twinks]

It may be on the parallel thread that someone actually types, apparently with a straight face, that he wouldn't fancy having someone else in the cab (a childishly simple way to monitor nearside clearance, which also brings additional benefits when it comes to rest, loading and complex manoeuvres) because it would intrude on his me-time. It beggars belief.

However advanced we imagine our own roadcraft, we should not only allow for errors but welcome novices, bimblers, youngsters who imagine themselves indestructible, and harmlessly clueless dabblers. There is no endpoint at which vulnerability is eliminated - we need to make our roads safe for everyone.

And horseriders too, I'd like to ride my horse through Manchester City centre safely! C'mon lets get real eh?

Our society depends upon Goods vehicles ( a society in which cyclists are a minority and we are a democracy). Change to that, if it were to happen, would be a long time coming so we have to deal with it in the present. Hopefully lessons will be learned and changes implemented but they will have to be within the bounds of what is financially viable (sorry but that's just so, please don't shout at me about the value of a cyclists life - you don't need to convince ME) and double manning HGVs just isn't. Cameras and sensors maybe.