Woman cyclist killed in Victoria (tipper truck)

[Pat "5mph"]

I don't happen to think that we should all have free, unfettered access to the road on a bike, but that makes me an antichrist on a forum like this,

No worries, I'm of the same opinion, we can be flamed together
Joking aside, I never did give this a thought until I did my own training, and I only did the cycle training because it was offered free in conjunction with another topics I wanted to learn.
It certainly was an eyeopener: I did jump on a bso one day, determined to ride to work. I was a confident rider, of course I didn't know I was doing it all wrong!
PS: please stop the bickering, it spoils this interesting thread.

Yes it is - it's already happening. Go around central London keeping off the main roads (hell, go on many of the main roads if you want) and it's exactly like that. The pedestrian is king, closely followed by the bike rider. Everyone else defers to us.

Why are we having this discussion, then? Are the incidents happening on the outskirts of London?
Btw, I'm not familiar with London.

 

[Mugshot]

It means his posts are moderated - he's Spindrift, a previously banned member, and he has form for being unnecessarily offensive...

That explains things which I was finding most confusing, thank you.

 

[subaqua]

Each road death = £1m.

The mirrors that many lorry drivers refuse to fit that remove blind spots cost £30.

Change your broken record.

 

[subaqua]

The EU were planning on allowing new HGV cab designs in 2017/18, but France and Sweden (read Renault and Volvo) objected on competition and life-cycle grounds. This has meant that the regulations governing cab length and, by extension, improved safety, will not now be brought in to 2022. This is unfortunate to say the least.

As I understand it, the issue of visibility and a lower seat height for HGVs using major roads is not a vexatious issue.

Do you drive one for a living? Can you elaborate on why it is not a vexatious issue , or are you just posting an argument that will fold easily ?

 

[deptfordmarmoset]

Why are we having this discussion, then? Are the incidents happening on the outskirts of London?
Btw, I'm not familiar with London.

Victoria is definitely not on the outskirts, it's very much a transport hub - in fact the tipper was probably there, and the road is narrowed, as part of a major rail project. When trucks are helping build railways, bikes are obviously the wrong transport....

It is actually possible to do a very good proportion of cycling journeys on quiet routes across London. But knowing the quieter routes takes a lot of research - there's meant to be a series of ''quietways'' set up across the capital, which should make this easier, but for the moment it takes a real local knowledge - and in addition to the time taken to find the route, they often cost time to ride and are longer. And they always involved crossing major routes even when you avoid riding along them. Personally, I really don't like noise, so I'll happily drop a couple of miles an hour to get where I'm going, and I'll cycle a bit further (12 miles of peaceful pleasure is better than 10 miles of direct hustle and bustle for me). But I'm in an unusual position in having ridden every road between here and Victoria so the back routes are far easier for me. And in the rare event that I'm under time pressure, I'll take the quickest route. This will nearly involve the busiest routes. I've no idea whether young Hitier-Abadie could have found a quieter route - I've no idea about routes from west to Victoria.

 

[srw]

The roads around Victoria are one of the few places I've been in central London where it hasn't felt as if the bike is king. Unfortunately we're squeezing modern HGVs into roads built to transport royalty by horse and carriage between Whitehall, Buckingham Palace and the Houses of Parliament. There are too many through routes and not enough back streets - partly because there are a lot of royal parks and palaces, and the royals don't tend to like opening up their parks and palaces to hoi polloi on two wheels.

 

[slowmotion]

In the case of that temporary road system in Victoria, it's worse than that. Some traffic planner came up with a road layout that was surrounded by construction sites. He/she must have known that tippers, skips and mixer trucks were going to use them regularly, and also that they don't have a good safety record. To come up with that lethal alley is plain incompetence.

 

[Origamist]

Do you drive one for a living? Can you elaborate on why it is not a vexatious issue , or are you just posting an argument that will fold easily ?

Mercedes Benz, Volvo, DAF, Scania etc are all working on the redesign of cabs in order to improve visibility, make the cab safer for the driver/other road users and improve fuel efficiency as the EU regulations are changing in 2022. It might be happening slowly, but I'm surprised that so many people don't seem to understand that this is taking place.

There are issues that need to be overcome, but they are far from insurmountable.

The increased dimension directive will help to change the conservative freight/construction industry for the better.

 

[Origamist]

Interesting.

There are some lorries on our roads with long bonnet cabs/tractor units.

I'm sure I've seen rigid heavy duty recovery vehicles with long bonnets, and I've certainly seen artic tractor units of that type.

Edit: Perhaps the bonnet doesn't count as cab length.

Here's a couple of recovery vehicles operating in the south of England.

http://www.sanddcommercials.co.uk/fleet.php

I should have been clearer, apologies - it's more of a de facto reality than a limit. The cab can be longer or shorter than 2.35m, but this is the approx size of the vast majority of COE HGVs due to EU regs on overall dimensions (meaning visibility is intrinsically compromised as a matter of course in order to maximise the payload space).

 

[XRHYSX]

[QUOTE 3563476, member: 9609"]

@XRHYSX I'm sure you said recently you were on tippers at the moment - how is your pay structured?[/QUOTE]

I'm payed per hour,
but there is an expected number of loads per day, depending on how far your run is,
the drivers who used to be payed per load still have that minded set..
I'm about one load behind,
I'm only doing this job for another two weeks,
I really don't like the stigma associated with it, people look at you like your the scum of the earth,
people who live on unfinished housing estates really don't like you driving through...

I will be going back to night trunking soon, all on major A roads and motoways

 

[subaqua]

Mercedes Benz, Volvo, DAF, Scania etc are all working on the redesign of cabs in order to improve visibility, make the cab safer for the driver/other road users and improve fuel efficiency as the EU regulations are changing in 2022. It might be happening slowly, but I'm surprised that so many people don't seem to understand that this is taking place.

The changes will help to change the conservative freight/construction industry for the better.

did you read my earlier post. they may well be available early, but the smaller companies ( apparently the ones who are more liekly to break the law according to one on here) will not be using them immediately. there will be a longer trickle down.
when the changes to the LEZ came into force i know of several smaller operators ( 10 lorries ) who rather than change the Vehicle did the modifications as it was more cost effective than buying a new fleet .even taking better fuel efficiency into account .

couple of other thing though. how does better visibilty stop people riding up the inside when they shouldnt ?
can you see 360 degrees around you at all times without moving your head ?

what will people start saying when a new modern cab is involved in a fatality ?


and you didn't answer the question I asked directly .

 

[Origamist]

did you read my earlier post. they may well be available early, but the smaller companies ( apparently the ones who are more liekly to break the law according to one on here) will not be using them immediately. there will be a longer trickle down.
when the changes to the LEZ came into force i know of several smaller operators ( 10 lorries ) who rather than change the Vehicle did the modifications as it was more cost effective than buying a new fleet .even taking better fuel efficiency into account .

couple of other thing though. how does better visibilty stop people riding up the inside when they shouldnt ?
can you see 360 degrees around you at all times without moving your head ?

what will people start saying when a new modern cab is involved in a fatality ?


and you didn't answer the question I asked directly .

Agreed, it will not be quick process, but over time TFL will only allow safer designs into London, for example.

No one is suggesting that improving visibility from the cab will eradicate fatalities involving HGVs, but it will ameliorate the situation significantly.

I don't drive a HGV for a living - is that the question you are referring to?

 

[glenn forger]

It's clear the road layout was a factor, what process was followed to get the lane pinched with hoardings like that?

 

[glenn forger]

can you see 360 degrees around you at all times without moving your head ?

i would expect people operating the most lethal vehicles to at least move their head while they drive. Blimey, it's a trifling imposition.

 

[subaqua]

i would expect people operating the most lethal vehicles to at least move their head while they drive. Blimey, it's a trifling imposition.

Ok so I move my head 90 degrees to the left can I see 180 degrees from my eyes ?