Why is cycle navigation so complicated?

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freiston

Veteran
Location
Coventry
Re. paper maps - I got my paper maps out the other day to look at my usual 25-35 mile circuits (which I can navigate from memory). As I recall it, with the 1:25000 sheets, I needed 4 sheets but with the 1:12500 sheets, I only needed 3. If I was travelling eastward from Coventry to Stamford (61 miles plotted with cycle.travel), I only need two 1:25000 sheets.

Using phone maps (O.S., Google or Osmand in my experience), even using the zoom facility, it is difficult to "see" a route on the little lanes (I find the same thing challenging when at the junction of three or four paper sheets too).

After some navigation errors using a track displayed on my phone via Osmand (I had the phone in my pocket, taking it out to refer to as I felt necessary - not on the handlebar "always on"), I got a Garmin Edge 530: it's turn-by-turn navigation function works well, it mounts conveniently and has a good battery life.

I can't use it to calculate a route to a specified destination but I can on the Connect phone app and then transfer it but I understand this relies on a data signal. I can use Osmand to plot a route with no data signal and I can transfer the route to the Garmin using a cabled connection but I can't do it over Bluetooth (despite both phone & Garmin having Bluetooth) and I can't import the gpx file into Garmin Connect (phone app) from my Osmand folder. I cannot use the 530 as a stand-alone to calculate a route to a destination.

I understand that some of the more expensive Garmins in the Edge range are capable of stand-alone route calculation by postcode but doing a web search, I find it ridiculously difficult to determine what cycle GPS computer has what stand-alone (and not requiring data signal/smartphone link) route calculation capability - particularly by address or point on map.

Recently, I was going to use a pre-loaded route to navigate back from a pub but decided to take an off-road detour through some woods, with the plan to load the route on the Garmin when I was back on the road and in the vicinity, hoping that the Garmin route recalculation would get me back on track. It was a nightmare and I ended up looking at Osmand on my phone (with the same track showing) to get back on track. Even then, when back on track and switching to the Garmin, the Garmin tried taking me in the wrong direction (and I didn't have it set to navigate to start of track).

I have also had problems with the Garmin when it thinks I am on a parallel road/path and when my return is on the same roads as my outward journey (so now I pre-load the outward and return legs as separate tracks). I do find the menu navigation on the unit a bit unintuitive too.

Despite all those problems, on a pre-loaded route, the Garmin is the easiest and best navigation aid that I have used. Even using online cycle-specific route-plotters, I am rarely happy with the route without doing some tinkering and making some changes - so I wouldn't expect a stand-alone unit to give me a preferred route - just a "get me there" route.
 

Dogtrousers

Kilometre nibbler
Navigation by your cycle computer? Why plot a route and follow it religiously. Weather can change out on a ride, or a cafe is full or closed and its a change of plan. A look at the mapping on a phone for an overview is all that's needed. My Garmin was not bought to tell me where to go🤔 it's to tell me where I have been. An old saying you are never lost, its only a new road to cycle on.

The OP doesn't want to use pre planned routes, but wants point to point routing. There are tons of apps and devices that do this.
 

Mike_P

Guru
Location
Harrogate
Navigation by your cycle computer? Why plot a route and follow it religiously.
For venturing into parts unknown, there is no reason to follow it religiously when in an area that you know the routes through but apps such as Komoot will give you an estimate of how long a ride will take which is useful to know so you can decide on whether than ride to far flung places is practicable in the time available. Couple it with an elevation profile and you can see if their are any gradients likely to cause you problems and see whether there is a less steep alternative, the indication of a steep grade on an OS map I find too big a range from those I can get up with no problem to those that it becomes as quick and far less energy consuming to walk up
 

freiston

Veteran
Location
Coventry
I've just had a thought in respect to navigating home on a Garmin 530 or similarly functioning unit. If you have a saved course starting from home, how about loading it and selecting "Navigate to start of course"? Similarly, if you have other possible destinations or waypoints, you could save short (c.100 yards?) courses starting from the destination/waypoint that you want to navigate to. I have never used the navigate to start of course function so I don't know how good it is.
 

Jameshow

Veteran
When new to an area the OS maps are essential. Isn't that what holiday evening are made for?

Then on the ride I have a pretty good idea of the roads and geography.if I get lost I can alway WIP out my phone for clarification as I'm more often taking pictures than at home!
 

chris-suffolk

Über Member
For venturing into parts unknown, there is no reason to follow it religiously when in an area that you know the routes through but apps such as Komoot will give you an estimate of how long a ride will take which is useful to know so you can decide on whether than ride to far flung places is practicable in the time available. Couple it with an elevation profile and you can see if their are any gradients likely to cause you problems and see whether there is a less steep alternative, the indication of a steep grade on an OS map I find too big a range from those I can get up with no problem to those that it becomes as quick and far less energy consuming to walk up

Problem with Komoot, from my experiences of trying to use it, is:-
- It has a tendancy to use major (busy) roads when there are quiet alternatives that add almost no extra distance
- If you ask it to do a 'return' route it normally just sends you back the way you came, rather than creating a 'proper' loop.

As mentioned above, I use cycle.travel, which avoids both these issues 99% of the time, whilst also giving all the other advantages that you mention. Win win so far as I'm concerned.
 

rogerzilla

Legendary Member
One thing about maps: they are useless if you don't know where you are, and you can't triangulate out in the wilds of Suffolk at 3am in pouring rain. I've been there. Turns out we were on the right road, but it was a nervy moment. A big group pulled up but no-one had GPS. That was 2006 and these days they'd all at least have a smartphone. Mind you, with no signal, the best Google Maps can do is longitude and latitude, which is difficult to translate to an OS map or, in my case, bits of photocopied road atlas.
 

Oldhippy

Cynical idealist
I do have a compass on the handlebars as well which comes in surprisingly handy at times.
 

mustang1

Legendary Member
Location
London, UK
I had a Garmin thingie and imho it sucked. So I bought a wahoo thingie. Far easier to use but doesn't have "real map following features". I bought another Garmin thingie and the maps still sucked. Who knew you could not enter a postcode, it still expects you to enter the first half of a post code, then then road name too!

So, phone it is then, along with a battery pack. Once wahoo have sorted out their bugs, I will give bolt v2 a shot.
 

Alex321

Guru
Location
South Wales
Thanks but all the above posts make my point far better than my original post 😉
Plotting, downloading, syncing, copying/pasting, rogue routes, too faffy by far.

They only make your point because you have already decided that is the case.

With a decent dedicated cycle computer, there really isn't any faff. You can if you want to pre-plan routes. But you certainly don't have to. And if you do, synching them should just happen automatically.

And if you are out with no pre-planned route, they all have a "take me to start" function which will be just one or two button presses.
 

PaulSB

Squire
I’d like to disappear into the local countryside and use the in built maps and nav to get home (or to anywhere) should I get lost or just wish to go somewhere but don’t know the way.

Thanks but all the above posts make my point far better than my original post 😉
Plotting, downloading, syncing, copying/pasting, rogue routes, too faffy by far.

The first quote is something you want to do. The second is your response to the help you've been offered. It's clear you decided no simple solution exists before creating the thread.

A Wahoo would take 30 minutes to set up and then 30 seconds to achieve your aim.

Why bother asking for help or advice in the first place? It's a waste of other people's time and effort.
 
Last edited:
Location
España
Thanks but all the above posts make my point far better than my original post 😉
Plotting, downloading, syncing, copying/pasting, rogue routes, too faffy by far.

Did you spend a bit of time adjusting the height or angle of saddle or handlebars to get a comfortable fit?
Pretty much the same thing as setting up a GPS device.

Do you clean your chain/drivetrain after a mucky day or is that too faffy by far?
Brakes? Tyre pressures? Too faffy to adjust them?
What about dressing for the weather? More faff?

It's been explained why a bike GPS doesn't work like a car.
You have been given examples of what will work just to get you home.

Many people have given long and detailed answers to your queries - must be too "faffy" to acknowledge that?

I travelled for years without using GPS, then started using Osmand before eventually getting a dedicated unit.
What can be done with a phone or unit these days is way beyond just plotting a route.
I can record my favourite places, roads to avoid, services and see elevation profiles - something that never interested me before but is essential now.
I have a record of every ride that I can fill out with photos, notes and comments. A great way to relive great days. That record is also useful for maintenance.
I can share my routes with others and "borrow" those of others.
I have no.interest in performance data but that is there if I wanted it too.

Having a GPS has reduced a a lot of stress and made the world bigger. Big places are no longer intimidating. Finding a specific address is easy peasy. Finding an alternate route when the one I'm on isn't to my taste is straightforward.
It might seem counter intuitive but understanding a mapping app like Osmand or having a GPS device actually opened up more places and gave me more freedom while giving me more confidence to explore.

Following your nose, paper maps, phone maps or a GPS - they're all good. But asking questions and then rubbishing the answers - not so good.
 
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