Why do people get such strong feelings over electric cars and solar panels etc.

[roubaixtuesday]

I can't think of a single charging station anywhere local to me.

There's an interesting technology known as a "google search" which may help find one.

 

[Tenkaykev]

95% of the time my destination is also a public street that's conspicuously devoid of any charging facilities. Come to think of it, I can't think of a single charging station anywhere local to me.

Out of interest, what sort of price per kWh do these stations typically charge?

Opened Apple maps on my phone and found 25 local charge stations.

 

[cougie uk]

95% of the time my destination is also a public street that's conspicuously devoid of any charging facilities. Come to think of it, I can't think of a single charging station anywhere local to me.

Out of interest, what sort of price per kWh do these stations typically charge?

You'll be surprised I'm sure if you look at a zap map website. It lists most of the chargers in the country.

Give me a postcode near you and I'll put up the screenshot of the area ?

I'm not sure how much they charge tbh. I know the faster chargers generally cost more because the kit to charge faster costs more than say a socket.

I've not used a public charger since last summer.

Tesco near me used to have free charging. I did do that a couple of times when the car was new. I could do a shop and get back with more electric than I left with. But I stopped doing that after a week or two cos other people might be needing the charger more than me saving 10p or whatever.

 

[wafter]

You'll be surprised I'm sure if you look at a zap map website. It lists most of the chargers in the country.

Give me a postcode near you and I'll put up the screenshot of the area ?

I'm not sure how much they charge tbh. I know the faster chargers generally cost more because the kit to charge faster costs more than say a socket.

I've not used a public charger since last summer.

Tesco near me used to have free charging. I did do that a couple of times when the car was new. I could do a shop and get back with more electric than I left with. But I stopped doing that after a week or two cos other people might be needing the charger more than me saving 10p or whatever.

Thanks - actually I was suprised that there are more than I thought; although none ideally located. Seems they're all 22kW units that cost between £0.65 and £0.85 per kWh depending on charge rate (which isn't stipulated for each). If we assume the more "accessible" end of the EV range and consider a 2010-2017 Nissan Leaf with a 30kWh battery, that's a cost of £19.50-25.50 to fully charge the battery from empty for the purposes of this exercise.

Quoted range for said battery when new is around 85-105 miles so assuming a mean of 95 miles per full charge that's a little under 3.2 miles/kWh; working out to a little over 20p/mile at 65p/kWh and just under 27p/mile at 85p/kWh. If we assume that the more expensive option is using the full quoted 22kW charging rate that suggests just under 1.5 hours to charge the battery from empty.

Applying these numbers to my situation which involves the bulk of my mileage being 3x daily 26ish mile journeys, that's either going to be a case of using nearly the full charge over these three days then spending over an hour charging at some point afterwards, or (in the interest of prolonging battery service life) charging at the end of every day for maybe 20 minutes. That's on top of a day when I don't usually get home until after 6pm, and not counting the additional time or energy taken to drive to the charging station.


If we push that out to a month and assume 450 miles total that's a cost of £90-122 in electricity for 140kWh depending on charge rate; and a minimum total charge time of around 6.4 hours at 22kW. Again, not taking into account travel time or distance to the charging station or additional.

By contrast my current car averages a little over 10 miles/litre, so at £1.50/litre for petrol that's around £0.15/mile or £68 to cover the month's mileage with around 45 litres of petrol. This is just about a tank full, which takes maybe 10 minutes to acquire at one of the petrol stations on the way home from work.

Being more generous to the EV and assuming home-charging at £0.30/kWh brings the cost down to around £0.094/mile for around £42/month spent on energy and obviously removes the time and distance associated with charging elsewhere. This highlights the stark difference between those with and without the ability to charge at home; which again probably loads EVs in favour of the more affluent.

Boiling it right down in my case - charging away from home costs between 1.3 times and nearly twice as much per mile than the petrol car and at the faster charging rate takes around fourty times as long than filling the tank once.. in absolute terms that would work out at an extra £22-54 per month in energy and over 6 hours spent getting it into the vehicle.

Charging at home would bring the cost of the EV down to around 0.65 times that of the petrol car, saving around £26/month in fuel costs.

In addition, the figures above are based on the range / charge capacity of a new vehicle; which in the real world on an older, higher-mileage example could be half the quoted figures; both likely increasing the necessary charging frequency and meaning that a greater percentage of the battery's charge is used per journey - further reducing its lifespan...

Best-case EVs represent a viable mode of transport in urban areas where journeys are short, charging infrastructure more dense and the slow, stop-start nature of driving makes IC vehicles less efficient and more polluting in an environment where this is especially problematic.

Worst-case I can't see them ever being viable in rural areas where the opposite to the above situation is generally true and in my particular situation I can see no incentive to change from my current vehicle.

 

[the snail]

If you have off-street parking you can get much lower costs - my supplier was offering 7p/kWh. Trouble is, like a lot of people, I don't have off-street parking, so I can't get the charger installed, and I could be stuck paying 10x as much. I'm looking to replace my vehicle this year, but at the moment it's looking like I will end up with another diesel van, although I would much rather go electric. Hopefully in a few years it will be a better option for me, but there really needs to be better provision for people in my situation.

 

[cougie uk]

Thanks - actually I was suprised that there are more than I thought; although none ideally located. Seems they're all 22kW units that cost between £0.65 and £0.85 per kWh depending on charge rate (which isn't stipulated for each). If we assume the more "accessible" end of the EV range and consider a 2010-2017 Nissan Leaf with a 30kWh battery, that's a cost of £19.50-25.50 to fully charge the battery from empty for the purposes of this exercise.

Quoted range for said battery when new is around 85-105 miles so assuming a mean of 95 miles per full charge that's a little under 3.2 miles/kWh; working out to a little over 20p/mile at 65p/kWh and just under 27p/mile at 85p/kWh. If we assume that the more expensive option is using the full quoted 22kW charging rate that suggests just under 1.5 hours to charge the battery from empty.

Applying these numbers to my situation which involves the bulk of my mileage being 3x daily 26ish mile journeys, that's either going to be a case of using nearly the full charge over these three days then spending over an hour charging at some point afterwards, or (in the interest of prolonging battery service life) charging at the end of every day for maybe 20 minutes. That's on top of a day when I don't usually get home until after 6pm, and not counting the additional time or energy taken to drive to the charging station.


If we push that out to a month and assume 450 miles total that's a cost of £90-122 in electricity for 140kWh depending on charge rate; and a minimum total charge time of around 6.4 hours at 22kW. Again, not taking into account travel time or distance to the charging station or additional.

By contrast my current car averages a little over 10 miles/litre, so at £1.50/litre for petrol that's around £0.15/mile or £68 to cover the month's mileage with around 45 litres of petrol. This is just about a tank full, which takes maybe 10 minutes to acquire at one of the petrol stations on the way home from work.

Being more generous to the EV and assuming home-charging at £0.30/kWh brings the cost down to around £0.094/mile for around £42/month spent on energy and obviously removes the time and distance associated with charging elsewhere. This highlights the stark difference between those with and without the ability to charge at home; which again probably loads EVs in favour of the more affluent.

Boiling it right down in my case - charging away from home costs between 1.3 times and nearly twice as much per mile than the petrol car and at the faster charging rate takes around fourty times as long than filling the tank once.. in absolute terms that would work out at an extra £22-54 per month in energy and over 6 hours spent getting it into the vehicle.

Charging at home would bring the cost of the EV down to around 0.65 times that of the petrol car, saving around £26/month in fuel costs.

In addition, the figures above are based on the range / charge capacity of a new vehicle; which in the real world on an older, higher-mileage example could be half the quoted figures; both likely increasing the necessary charging frequency and meaning that a greater percentage of the battery's charge is used per journey - further reducing its lifespan...

Best-case EVs represent a viable mode of transport in urban areas where journeys are short, charging infrastructure more dense and the slow, stop-start nature of driving makes IC vehicles less efficient and more polluting in an environment where this is especially problematic.

Worst-case I can't see them ever being viable in rural areas where the opposite to the above situation is generally true and in my particular situation I can see no incentive to change from my current vehicle.

Really ? The two nearest me are supposed to be 30 and 35p for 22W. The Instavolt fast chargers are 85p though.

Charging at home is 9p per kWh off-peak or free if it's a sunny day.

Rural areas usually have space. Bung a charger on the house and your fuel bills plummet.

I've seen people in towns using an extension lead and a cable cover to charge their car a few doors down. I'd definitely be looking at that if it's 1/8 of the cost.

Fwiw my leaf is 6 this year and I've not noticed any change in capacity. I'm sure it's fallen but it's not an issue.

 

[Kingfisher101]

I honestly don't know anyone who gets worked up about solar panels, apart from the poor family whose house burnt to the ground after some fault developed. The chat amongst my circle of friends regarding EV's is, can they get them to work for them, which is currently mostly know for one reason or another.

People round here get worked up about all the problems with pidgins nesting underneath them and laying their eggs etc .
People were saying all they could hear was cooing and scrabbling from them.
I personally wouldn't want my roof being potentially damaged by tradespeople fitting them and then having to go up a fit pidgin netting etc.
I think they are a bit of a white elephant personally.

 

[wafter]

Really ? The two nearest me are supposed to be 30 and 35p for 22W. The Instavolt fast chargers are 85p though.

Charging at home is 9p per kWh off-peak or free if it's a sunny day.

Rural areas usually have space. Bung a charger on the house and your fuel bills plummet.

I've seen people in towns using an extension lead and a cable cover to charge their car a few doors down. I'd definitely be looking at that if it's 1/8 of the cost.

Fwiw my leaf is 6 this year and I've not noticed any change in capacity. I'm sure it's fallen but it's not an issue.

Aye - at least the couple I clicked on were. Take a look for yourself at chargers in semi-rural north Oxfordshire.

Can't argue with the solar angle; although again it requires space and initial expenditure.

 

[Gillstay]

People round here get worked up about all the problems with pidgins nesting underneath them and laying their eggs etc .
People were saying all they could hear was cooing and scrabbling from them.
I personally wouldn't want my roof being potentially damaged by tradespeople fitting them and then having to go up a fit pidgin netting etc.
I think they are a bit of a white elephant personally.

I have solar panels on this house and had hot water panels put on the last one. Both have been very good investments and I have had no trouble with them. In fact they altered how we used the house and made it much more comfortable. Its just progress and evolution.

 

[Slick]

People round here get worked up about all the problems with pidgins nesting underneath them and laying their eggs etc .
People were saying all they could hear was cooing and scrabbling from them.
I personally wouldn't want my roof being potentially damaged by tradespeople fitting them and then having to go up a fit pidgin netting etc.
I think they are a bit of a white elephant personally.

I've been involved in a few solar jobs. I wouldn't have them on my roof either.

 

[cougie uk]

People round here get worked up about all the problems with pidgins nesting underneath them and laying their eggs etc .
People were saying all they could hear was cooing and scrabbling from them.
I personally wouldn't want my roof being potentially damaged by tradespeople fitting them and then having to go up a fit pidgin netting etc.
I think they are a bit of a white elephant personally.

We had pigeon mesh put up with the panels. I'd heard stories of pigeons nesting and chicks dying and then rotting under there etc so made sense to do it at the time.

 

[wafter]

I think solar panels are a much easier sell than EVs although I agree about the finer points - many things are great in principle but ruined by the execution; and personally I avoid employing "tradesmen" like the plague as at best they rarely do the job to the standard I'd like / expect; at worst they ruin everything and stand there with their hands out, expecting you to pay them for the privilege.

That aside it seems there are still issues with solar such as the longevity / recycleability of the panels and associated gear, but it's now relatively mature tech and "free" energy, so what's not to like?

I've toyed with the idea a little; however the aversion to employing third parties plus the property's inherent unsuitability (orientation, shading from trees) makes it a bit of a non-starter, sadly.

 

[Kingfisher101]

How much electric do solar panels produce on a house approx.? Is it enough to stop paying for electric all together? How much is stored as well because they have batteries now don't they?

 

[Alex321]

People round here get worked up about all the problems with pidgins nesting underneath them and laying their eggs etc .
People were saying all they could hear was cooing and scrabbling from them.
I personally wouldn't want my roof being potentially damaged by tradespeople fitting them and then having to go up a fit pidgin netting etc.
I think they are a bit of a white elephant personally.

I don't think pigeons could get under properly fitted ones. Certainly haven't noticed the slightest sign of any under ours, and there are plenty of pigeons in the trees behind the house.

They are only a "white elephant" to people who don't ant them for personal reasons, or people whose roof is not really suitable, due to angles or shading.

We'll have had ours for two years in 3 days time, and to date have generated 19.13MWh. That is far from being a white elephant.

 

[classic33]

Pigeons and other birds appear to a problem going on the number of ways the installers have of preventing them getting under.

Or, maybe they're just selling you something that you don't really need.