Unhappy with local bike shop matainence work.

[sackville d]

I have got to the stage where I only need them for bottom bracket and headtube facing and wheel building and truing and I`ll have a go at truing soon!

 

[Crankarm]

Bike maintenance is pretty straightforward. If you can't, then you are at the mercy of others who think they can and frankly because fettling a bike is so easy any grease monkey thinks they can do anyone else's bike.

 

[RecordAceFromNew]

I've seen numerous posts on here, and other forums, of the cost of a full cable installation and indexing costing £40-50! Personally, I think that's disgusting. It shouldn't take more than an hour to install new cables. The cost of a good kit (Jagwire/Shimano) is around £20-25. I can't justify someone charging £20 or more to fit the things...

I can.

Let's use your example, from your figures the shop is getting say £20 for the hour's work. However the shop has numerous bills to pay such as rent and rate and utility, not to mention people wages holidays NI downtime sick pay pension etc where relevant as well as costs of equipment. The bottom line, in my experience, is that very roughly speaking a desk job business can just about breakeven if it charges wage rate x 2 as hourly rate, and workshops with heavy machinery have to charge wage rage x 4. If we assume a bike shop is half way between the two then the mechanic is only going to get 1/3rd of the £20 per hour which is £6.66 an hour, or if he works full time about £13,000 a year, and even if this is increased by 50% it will hardly encourage capable people to the trade, especially given customers are whingeing about paying £20 an hour...

I think the problem is more about lack of consistent staff quality rather than exorbitant rates (as in Merc/BMW dealer workshop rates...), and the problem is due to the large increase in popularity of cycling, giving rise to an abundance of shops, which result in skilled staff shortages, while there is a distinct lack of government-regulated and self-regulated quality assurance in the trade.

 

[Crankarm]

I can.

Let's use your example, from your figures the shop is getting say £20 for the hour's work. However the shop has numerous bills to pay such as rent and rate and utility, not to mention people wages holidays NI downtime sick pay pension etc where relevant as well as costs of equipment. The bottom line, in my experience, is that very roughly speaking a desk job business can just about breakeven if it charges wage rate x 2 as hourly rate, and workshops with heavy machinery have to charge wage rage x 4. If we assume a bike shop is half way between the two then the mechanic is only going to get 1/3rd of the £20 per hour which is £6.66 an hour, or if he works full time about £13,000 a year, and even if this is increased by 50% it will hardly encourage capable people to the trade, especially given customers are whingeing about paying £20 an hour...

I think the problem is more about lack of consistent staff quality rather than exorbitant rates (as in Merc/BMW dealer workshop rates...), and the problem is due to the large increase in popularity of cycling, giving rise to an abundance of shops, which result in skilled staff shortages, while there is a distinct lack of government-regulated and self-regulated quality assurance in the trade.

Have you heard of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982? A business and in this instance the LBS and it's mechanic must show reasonable care and skill in carrying out work which from what the OP has writ they haven't. If I were the OP I would go back making sure they service the bike properly without further cost or I'd be after a full refund.

 

[RecordAceFromNew]

Have you heard of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982? A business and in this instance the LBS and it's mechanic must show reasonable care and skill in carrying out work which from what the OP has writ they haven't. If I were the OP I would go back making sure they service the bike properly without further cost or I'd be after a full refund.

Having read your comment twice I still can't figure out why it is a reply to my comment. I assume your comment has nothing to do with my pointing out the lack of quality assurance in the trade being an issue, since firstly QA is about prevention not cure and prevention is generally better than cure; and secondly if a 1982 Statutory Act were effective in improving LBS service quality, you would have thought for us now sitting around here 32 years later it would have fixed it!!

 

[migrantwing]

I can.

Let's use your example, from your figures the shop is getting say £20 for the hour's work. However the shop has numerous bills to pay such as rent and rate and utility, not to mention people wages holidays NI downtime sick pay pension etc where relevant as well as costs of equipment. The bottom line, in my experience, is that very roughly speaking a desk job business can just about breakeven if it charges wage rate x 2 as hourly rate, and workshops with heavy machinery have to charge wage rage x 4. If we assume a bike shop is half way between the two then the mechanic is only going to get 1/3rd of the £20 per hour which is £6.66 an hour, or if he works full time about £13,000 a year, and even if this is increased by 50% it will hardly encourage capable people to the trade, especially given customers are whingeing about paying £20 an hour...

I think the problem is more about lack of consistent staff quality rather than exorbitant rates (as in Merc/BMW dealer workshop rates...), and the problem is due to the large increase in popularity of cycling, giving rise to an abundance of shops, which result in skilled staff shortages, while there is a distinct lack of government-regulated and self-regulated quality assurance in the trade.

I completely agree, understand and value your reply to my previous comment but, regardless of cost/overheads etc, £20 to fit some cables is still OTT. I realise that nothing is for free, and that a customer is paying for a service that he/she cannot do themselves or would rather pay a 'professional' to do it due to lack of time/knowledge. It still doesn't sit well with me and I would not pay those rates for something as simple as a cable installation.

I also agree with what you state regarding inconsistencies in staff quality and skilled staff shortages. The problem here is that most bike shops want some kind of recognised qualification, either Cytech or NVQ. One of these courses would cost around £1000-1500 (Cytech) and in return for these qualifications, the employee would only get paid minimum wage, maybe a bit more if they were lucky. So what is the motivation to pursue a qualification? I've looked into it myself and decided the initial outlay was not worth the personal gain or abysmal wage.

 

[cyberknight]

I'd be as well with one of these

Sounds like indexing
Replaced the cassette and chain and the indexing was off so i spent ages trying to get it right on the stand with no luck so tried it on the road and it felt ok ?

 

[Cuchilo]

I would be interested in hearing from those who think £20 an hour for fitting a cable is a rip off and what they do for a living . Maybe also what they charge per hour .

 

[roundisland]

I dont think £20.00 per hour is expensive. It was the attitude of the mechanic who looked disgusted when I voiced my opinion to what the problem might be. I dont have the time or inclination to take my bike back there, Ive put it down to experience. since ive indexed my gears, sorted out the shifter, adjusted the disc breaks..thanks YouTube! This thread is a pity for all those bike shops that care and do a good job which im sure there is plenty.

 

[sackville d]

My LBS now does good business selling me quality bike tools

 

[Cyclopathic]

Bike maintenance is pretty straightforward. If you can't, then you are at the mercy of others who think they can and frankly because fettling a bike is so easy any grease monkey thinks they can do anyone else's bike.

You are right that bike maintenance is fairly straight forward but your post gives the impression that anybody out there fixing bikes is some sort of hack. I take quite a pride in my work and have spent a long time learning about it. It's simple but to do it consistently well for all bikes with all the incumbent (or recumbent) problems is not so simple. One also has to have the tools for every eventuality and every bike, so to be successful in business you need to be more than just a hack.

 

[Crankarm]

You are right that bike maintenance is fairly straight forward but your post gives the impression that anybody out there fixing bikes is some sort of hack. I take quite a pride in my work and have spent a long time learning about it. It's simple but to do it consistently well for all bikes with all the incumbent (or recumbent) problems is not so simple. One also has to have the tools for every eventuality and every bike, so to be successful in business you need to be more than just a hack.

Good for you.

 

[Crankarm]

Having read your comment twice I still can't figure out why it is a reply to my comment. I assume your comment has nothing to do with my pointing out the lack of quality assurance in the trade being an issue, since firstly QA is about prevention not cure and prevention is generally better than cure; and secondly if a 1982 Statutory Act were effective in improving LBS service quality, you would have thought for us now sitting around here 32 years later it would have fixed it!!

Because your post was a whinge about how hard it is for bike shops almost condoning shoddy practice. The S&SoGA 1982 gives consumers redress against businesses or those holding themselves out as businesses who do shoddy work and don't provide what they are supposed to. One of the terms of the Act is that if you provide a service then it must be done with reasonable care and skill that work should be free of minor defects or faults likewise any parts supplied to carry out the job. It has NOTHING to do with QA it gives consumers the opportunity to get redress from businesses that take your money and don't carry out work to sufficiently high standard or just don't do anything at all, as what appears to have happened in the OP's case.

 

[RecordAceFromNew]

Because your post was a whinge about how hard it is for bike shops almost condoning shoddy practice.

Blimey can you show me the statement I made that is a whinge about how hard it is for bike shops? Or what did I say that appears to you to condone shoddy practice?

It would seem you have somehow translated my showing migrantwing's example of £20 per hour a lbs may charge for labour being not particularly rich to be a "whinge about how hard it is for bike shops". Given adult minimum legal wage is £6.31 an hour if you dispute the former you should say so and explain why, and pluck up some courage and respond to Cuchilo's questions. As to whether time is hard for bike shops, I haven't got the faintest idea nor have I ever opined it since most shops don't just sell services, or indeed always for £20 an hour.

Over to you.

 

[Cyclopathic]

Good for you.

Is that a genuine "good for you" or a sarcastic one?