Understanding heart rates

[400bhp]

rubbish

1. rev counters do not track every single rev - merely give an average over a short period of time
2. hrm are the same - typically visual read out every second - recorded every 5 secs or so
3. big jumps in heart rate while engaging in relatively steady state exercise do not happen -even at a max all out effort there will be a progressive rise of hrt with a corresponding progressive fall on recovery

so no big jumps

That's not my understanding and my own experience.

I was extremely fit until my mid 20's. Resting heart rate wad below 45. I then stopped exercising for 5 year's or so and gained a few stone. When I started exercising again I got a personal trainer to observe me running on a treadmill for 20 minutes or so. He didn't know my past history but asked if I had been very fit a few years ago. The reason he asked is because he was seeing large spikes/jumps in heart rates. This is apparently observed in people tat were very fit and let things go so to speak. The heart has a memory and was artificially running low whereas in reality it should have been beating faster given my physical condition. The heart then gets a sudden "shock" and spikes. He did say that it was something that needed keeping an eye on when getting back into fitness.

 

[psmiffy]

That's not my understanding and my own experience.

I was extremely fit until my mid 20's. Resting heart rate wad below 45. I then stopped exercising for 5 year's or so and gained a few stone. When I started exercising again I got a personal trainer to observe me running on a treadmill for 20 minutes or so. He didn't know my past history but asked if I had been very fit a few years ago. The reason he asked is because he was seeing large spikes/jumps in heart rates. This is apparently observed in people tat were very fit and let things go so to speak. The heart has a memory and was artificially running low whereas in reality it should have been beating faster given my physical condition. The heart then gets a sudden "shock" and spikes. He did say that it was something that needed keeping an eye on when getting back into fitness.

Fair play - I went to the gym this evening and did my first CV session in something like 3 months - the trace on my computer is smooth and progressive - as opposed to the trace when I fitted the hrm earlier in the evening sitting in my study with god knows how many wireless things around me and an insufficiently wet strap

 

[Enw.nigel]

Did you used to be pretty fit and have got much less fit now?

I did the London - Paris bike ride at the end of June so did a lot of training in preparation for that. I had a lazy July/August with 226 and and 152 miles completed respectively but in October back up to 337 miles. I manage 30 milers with no problem and complete my monthly 40 miler without any great difficulty. I don.t think it is my drop in fitness level that is the problem.
I will get to the bottom of this and post my findings here.

 

[MrJamie]

I did the London - Paris bike ride at the end of June so did a lot of training in preparation for that. I had a lazy July/August with 226 and and 152 miles completed respectively but in October back up to 337 miles. I manage 30 milers with no problem and complete my monthly 40 miler without any great difficulty. I don.t think it is my drop in fitness level that is the problem.
I will get to the bottom of this and post my findings here.

Did you figure this out Nigel?

My HRM was really spikey at the start of my run tonight for about 5 mins then went normal, its been flawless otherwise and same clothes/positioning as normal. I wonder how long the batteries last.

 

[Enw.nigel]

I'm still working on it. Garmin support have been very supportive when I explained the problem to them. They sent me a replacement HRM (the premium monitor as well) saying that my standard one must have been faulty. This new HRM showed the same problem above 145bpm. Garmin then sent another HRM strap to try. At the same time I acquired a Garmin Edge 705 so last Sunday I set off with the Garmin 305 and 705 set up alongside each other with the new strap & transmitter and the same problem showed up on both Garmins - rapid increase in BPM above 145BPM. However, the spiking was not as high as previously - only up into the 190's BPM.
This has at least shown that the Garmin was not at fault. I have been looking at http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2010/04/troubleshooting-your-heart-rate.html The site has a number of suggestions so I am going to give some of them a go tomorrow e,g, completely wash strap, wearing more to the side etc.
I am finding this so frustrating as I cannot determine training zones until I determine my maximum HR. I will report back here after tomorrows attempt.
Thanks for showing an interest Mr Jamie

 

[craigwend]

 

[Enw.nigel]

Reporting back.
Prior to today's 30 miler i washed the Premium HRM (after unclipping the transmitter) in soapy water and let it dry overnight - even though it is new. I then applied conductive gel and wore it to the left of centre. there was a definite improvement with readings being stable to about 155 BPM but then the spiking started but not as high as before and not as frequent. My ave. BPM was 134 with a max. of 189 BPM. Compare that to a ride over the same route on 4/11 of ave. BPM 142 with a max of 212 BPM (Strava readings). I did stop to make some positional adjustments - further to the left, higher on the chest but with no improvement. Too cold to strip off more than once.
When you think that my max BPM should be between 159 - 166 according to the different formulae (age 63) then there is still inaccuracy in the higher readings so I will carry on experimenting.
Next, back to the standard strap after a careful wash and wear that to the left and see what that brings.

 

[Enw.nigel]

Just thought I would attach the Strava graphs for both workouts to show the comparison between the HR over both rides. You can view them in MS Word.
Interesting that there is 268 ft more climbing on the Garmin 705 compared to the 305.

 

[VamP]

Reporting back.
Prior to today's 30 miler i washed the Premium HRM (after unclipping the transmitter) in soapy water and let it dry overnight - even though it is new. I then applied conductive gel and wore it to the left of centre. there was a definite improvement with readings being stable to about 155 BPM but then the spiking started but not as high as before and not as frequent. My ave. BPM was 134 with a max. of 189 BPM. Compare that to a ride over the same route on 4/11 of ave. BPM 142 with a max of 212 BPM (Strava readings). I did stop to make some positional adjustments - further to the left, higher on the chest but with no improvement. Too cold to strip off more than once.
When you think that my max BPM should be between 159 - 166 according to the different formulae (age 63) then there is still inaccuracy in the higher readings so I will carry on experimenting.
Next, back to the standard strap after a careful wash and wear that to the left and see what that brings.

You *might* just have a high revving heart. Seeing as HR based training is all about percentages of either maximum or threshold heart rates, so long as your set-up measures your HR consistently, you should be good to go. I wouldn't spend any time worrying bout what your HRmax ''should'' be.

 

[Andrew_P]

I have had blips like that but mine are 100% down to dry body contact points on the strap and wind on a cycling top causing static and always happen at the very start of the ride.. Never get it once a bit of sweat develops, and never get it if I wear a base layer and or jacket.

How are you feeling at 212bpm, are you flat out? Breathing hard etc?

I assume the strap is on round the right way so you can read word Garmin? (not sure it it would make any difference but the handbook says it should be this way)

Do you up load to Garmin Connect? I find the three charts in a line are better to take a look at, on mine you can clearly see the HR is relative to effort.

Have you done a Heart Rate Recovery self test? See how much your heart rate drops over one and two minutes? I only do it using the charts on Garmin Connect, every now and agin I will go up the hill in the middle of my commute flat out, and coast down the other side or gentle peddle, then pick up the numbers off of Garmin.

Honestly though if you are worried do see your GP.

 

[Enw.nigel]

How are you feeling at 212bpm, are you flat out? Breathing hard etc?
I assume the strap is on round the right way so you can read word Garmin? (not sure it it would make any difference but the handbook says it should be this way)
Have you done a Heart Rate Recovery self test? See how much your heart rate drops over one and two minutes? I only do it using the charts on Garmin Connect, every now and agin I will go up the hill in the middle of my commute flat out, and coast down the other side or gentle peddle, then pick up the numbers off of Garmin.
Honestly though if you are worried do see your GP.

The 212 BPM is an abberration. There is no way my my heart is beating that fast. At all the high spikes I am breathing heavily but could still hold a laboured conversation.
If you look at my attachment on my previous post where I compare my latest ride to an earlier ride you can see the link between heart rate and elevation. You can also see that the drop is quite quick from max. HR back down.
It has to be a contact problem somehow. I am going to try the transmitter WITH the word Garmin upside down as wearing it this way solved the spiking problem for someone (read it on another forum somewhere).
I am not worried about it being a heart problem. I just want the HRM working properly.

 

[Andrew_P]

The 212 BPM is an abberration. There is no way my my heart is beating that fast. At all the high spikes I am breathing heavily but could still hold a laboured conversation.
If you look at my attachment on my previous post where I compare my latest ride to an earlier ride you can see the link between heart rate and elevation. You can also see that the drop is quite quick from max. HR back down.
It has to be a contact problem somehow. I am going to try the transmitter WITH the word Garmin upside down as wearing it this way solved the spiking problem for someone (read it on another forum somewhere).
I am not worried about it being a heart problem. I just want the HRM working properly.

Are you very hairy? Serious question.

Any suggestions besides a visit to the doctor in case these readings are accurate. I've succeeded in worrying myself now.

I only mentioned the GP as one of your posts did indicate that you were getting worried..

 

[T.M.H.N.E.T]

I am not worried about it being a heart problem. I just want the HRM working properly.

Are you sure you've got that in the right order?

 

[Enw.nigel]

Just to finish my contribution here.
I have tried everything to try to sort out this spiking in my HR - merino top, synthetic top, standard HRM (two), premium HRM (with two different straps), gel, saliva, Garmin 305, Garmin 705, wear to the front, side, back all to no avail.
I was at the doctor's about a skin problem and told him about my concerns with my HR jumping quickly above 145 BPM. He looked at my blood pressure results for the last few years (I try to have an annual check up) and told me that my pressure was 'ridiculously' good and advised me to 'throw the monitor away'.
So, it looks like I am stuck with this spiking for whatever reason. I do notice though that it coincides with me putting extra effort on my legs e,g, cresting a hill out of the saddle, the base of a hill before I settle into a rhythm.
I won't throw it away but I'll just have to accept my readings for what they are.

 

[Rob3rt]

Just to finish my contribution here.
I have tried everything to try to sort out this spiking in my HR - merino top, synthetic top, standard HRM (two), premium HRM (with two different straps), gel, saliva, Garmin 305, Garmin 705, wear to the front, side, back all to no avail.
I was at the doctor's about a skin problem and told him about my concerns with my HR jumping quickly above 145 BPM. He looked at my blood pressure results for the last few years (I try to have an annual check up) and told me that my pressure was 'ridiculously' good and advised me to 'throw the monitor away'.
So, it looks like I am stuck with this spiking for whatever reason. I do notice though that it coincides with me putting extra effort on my legs e,g, cresting a hill out of the saddle, the base of a hill before I settle into a rhythm.
I won't throw it away but I'll just have to accept my readings for what they are.

LOL.