UK SUV Petition

[BoldonLad]

SIL just spent £30k on a Yaris Cross - SUV version, WTF. Ugly, but even the normal Yaris isn't cheap, at least that looks good and is better to drive. It's not a real SUV but it's too big and she can't actually use the electronics - she's not tech savvy (it's footprint is smaller than the Corrolla that she had).

Big monsters to go take the kids to school are mad, but in many cultures riding a bike is for the poor - bit weird in the UK as those with a bit more than loose change in their pocket will get a bike, but many cultures will get fancy cars instead.

Lots of 'tall' cars are no bigger or less fuel efficient than the car they replaced. That said, my old car, is far better on the motorway (ride), and on country lanes than my wife's car/soft SUV that replaced it. Fuel slightly better on the newer car, and a more comfy city ride. Motorway/country and bikes on roof, my normal car wins.

Car for the job, or really, not use it much. My car does 3k miles a year !

Just bought a Yaris Hybrid. Did look at the Cross version. It is the same mechanicals as the Yaris Hybrid. To me, the plus of the Cross was ease of access (we are both past our best before date). But, we decided on the Yaris. Just have to be sure to stay flexible enough to get in and out of it. 😊

 

[BoldonLad]

PCP - so they all have them !

Exactly

 

[BoldonLad]

There are no open roads in cities anyway.

A bold assertion

 

[BoldonLad]

It's badly worded. Most SUVs are not 4x4 (or AWD, or 4WD) - they are 2WD. And a Suzuki Jimny, which is 4x4, is one of the smallest and lightest cars on the road.

I would, however, like to see a sensible width and weight limit for cars driven on a normal licence. Cars have become much too wide and heavy.

There is a weight limit on a car licence, depending on when you passed your test, and, in part on your age/health.

 

[BoldonLad]

SUVs are known to be more dangerous to other road users - their height means the protective structures in other cars are less effective, a pedestrian is more likely to receive life threatening injuries like a broken pelvis, or end up underneath the vehicle. They shouldn't be on the roads at all imo.

Define “SUV”?

Link to evidence?

 

[BoldonLad]

Yet the very people that call for such petitions likely have Amazon and Ebay accounts, and their spending habits contribute to the escalating number of HGVs and kamikaze delivery vans on our roads.

Don’t goods bought in the High Street have to be delivered to the Store?, don’t bully/heavy items have to be delivered from store to home (eg I doubt I would be carrying a double size mattress on the bus).

 

[Alex321]

Don’t goods bought in the High Street have to be delivered to the Store?, don’t bully/heavy items have to be delivered from store to home (eg I doubt I would be carrying a double size mattress on the bus).

Goods delivered to the store will usually be in bulk though. One delivery with many more items than any household is likely to order at once, so it is far fewer delivery journeys than are needed for delivering one or two items to each delivery point.

And bulky items may need delivering from store to the home (whether by the sore delivery service or by the customer driving them home), but those are a fairly small proportion of all deliveries.

 

[Drago]

Don’t goods bought in the High Street have to be delivered to the Store?, don’t bully/heavy items have to be delivered from store to home (eg I doubt I would be carrying a double size mattress on the bus).

Yep. If we consume we're part of the problem.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

Link to evidence?

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0022437522000810?via=ihub

 

[roubaixtuesday]

Yet the very people that call for such petitions likely have Amazon and Ebay accounts, and their spending habits contribute to the escalating number of HGVs and kamikaze delivery vans on our roads.

I'm not sure how you know the habits of these people, but regardless, (1) deliveries put less traffic miles on the roads than personal driving for collecting the same item and (2) SUVs are more hazardous to other road users than (what used to be) normal cars for the same journey.

 

[Bristolian]

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0022437522000810?via=ihub

Not the most convincing set of statistics to support your argument. We'll put aside the fact that the research is from the USA where driving and cycling conditions are quite different to the UK. Could you not find anything UK or EU based to support your argument?

From the abstract:
SUV's are involved in 14.7% of collisions with cyclist and/or pedestrians. 85.3% of collisions involve some other form of transport.
SUV's are involved in 25.4% of cyclist and/or pedestrian fatalities. 74.6% of fatalities involve other forms of transport.

The rest of the report is represented by snippets from each section, so it is rather difficult to appreciate the arguments put forward.

One death is one death too many.

Having lived and worked in the USA in 1995/6/7 my experience of American drivers may be a it off whack but I managed to get my Pennsylvania DMV drivers license just two weeks after I moved there having had absolutely zero tuition. I confidently predict that few (if any) American drivers could do the same here in the UK so my opinion of their driving skills or required knowledge of driving laws is fairly low. The same is true of cyclists and pedestrians (in my experience) - if you think we have a problem here with cyclists ignoring the rules of the road or pedestrians not looking before they step into the street just spend some time observing in Times Square.

If I were to accept your premise that SUV's cause more harm to cyclists or pedestrians, and for all I know you may well be right, I still couldn't support a ban on them. There are many very valid reasons for owning one - and I should know I've had seven (still have one).

 

[roubaixtuesday]

Not the most convincing set of statistics to support your argument. We'll put aside the fact that the research is from the USA where driving and cycling conditions are quite different to the UK. Could you not find anything UK or EU based to support your argument?

From the abstract:
SUV's are involved in 14.7% of collisions with cyclist and/or pedestrians. 85.3% of collisions involve some other form of transport.
SUV's are involved in 25.4% of cyclist and/or pedestrian fatalities. 74.6% of fatalities involve other forms of transport.

The rest of the report is represented by snippets from each section, so it is rather difficult to appreciate the arguments put forward.

One death is one death too many.

Having lived and worked in the USA in 1995/6/7 my experience of American drivers may be a it off whack but I managed to get my Pennsylvania DMV drivers license just two weeks after I moved there having had absolutely zero tuition. I confidently predict that few (if any) American drivers could do the same here in the UK so my opinion of their driving skills or required knowledge of driving laws is fairly low. The same is true of cyclists and pedestrians (in my experience) - if you think we have a problem here with cyclists ignoring the rules of the road or pedestrians not looking before they step into the street just spend some time observing in Times Square.

If I were to accept your premise that SUV's cause more harm to cyclists or pedestrians, and for all I know you may well be right, I still couldn't support a ban on them. There are many very valid reasons for owning one - and I should know I've had seven (still have one).

It wasn't my argument, I merely responded to the request for data. Your denial of it is noted.

What the behaviour of people in Times Square has to do with this is a mystery to me.

I haven't advocated a ban either.

There are for sure many reasons for owning one; almost all are predicated on the owner's desires being more important than the impact on others.

 

[Drago]

I'm not sure how you know the habits of these people, but regardless, (1) deliveries put less traffic miles on the roads than personal driving for collecting the same item and (2) SUVs are more hazardous to other road users than (what used to be) normal cars for the same journey.

I know the habits of these people because I'm one of them.

Heres an idea that would create even less traffic miles - stop buying useless consumer tat that'll be obsolete in two years and in a landfill in four.

SUVs aren't the problem. Lazy-ass, greedy, selfish and thoughtless human beings are.

For all the talk of pedestrian danger there is been no rise in road deaths attributable to the popularity of these vehicles. These claims of pedestrian carnage aren't being borne out by the actual numbers. Indeed, UK road traffic deaths have been, to within 60, pretty much static over the last five years while the number of these tanks has risen sharply.

You're taking your eye off the ball if you thunk SUVs are the underlying problem.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

I know the habits of these people because I'm one of them.

Heres an idea that would create even less traffic miles - stop buying useless consumer tat that'll be obsolete in two years and in a landfill in four.

SUVs aren't the problem. Lazy-ass, greedy, selfish and thoughtless human beings are.

For all the talk of pedestrian danger there is been no rise in road deaths attributable to the popularity of these vehicles. These claims of pedestrian carnage aren't being borne out by the actual numbers. Indeed, UK road traffic deaths have been, to within 60, pretty much static over the last five years while the number of these tanks has risen sharply.

You're taking your eye off the ball if you thunk SUVs are the underlying problem.

I posted evidence of the impact on deaths.

I don't think SUVs are the only problem.

I do think they're a significant problem, from resource use, emissions and road use.

 

[Alex321]

I know the habits of these people because I'm one of them.

Heres an idea that would create even less traffic miles - stop buying useless consumer tat that'll be obsolete in two years and in a landfill in four.

SUVs aren't the problem. Lazy-ass, greedy, selfish and thoughtless human beings are.

For all the talk of pedestrian danger there is been no rise in road deaths attributable to the popularity of these vehicles. These claims of pedestrian carnage aren't being borne out by the actual numbers. Indeed, UK road traffic deaths have been, to within 60, pretty much static over the last five years while the number of these tanks has risen sharply.

You're taking your eye off the ball if you thunk SUVs are the underlying problem.

Given that road deaths had been reducing for many years previously, and given the number of road safety initiatives over the last few years, staying static is not a good thing.