Tubeless woes pt4?

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fossyant

Ride It Like You Stole It!
Location
South Manchester
TBH, if the split is big enough, you've probably got to bin the tyre, tubed or tubeless ! You could try cleaning up the inside of the tyre and stick a patch on it if the 'worms' don't work.
 
OP
OP
livpoksoc

livpoksoc

Guru
Location
Basingstoke
Aaaand apologies, my target pressure is 80psi. I used to run tubed at 100-105 (continental gp4000s 700x23/25). I am 115kgs.

Continental gp5000s 700x25 marking says max psi 109

Schwalbe pro one TLE 700x28 has no marking and finding a guide is tricky, but recall conversations with them inferred 80psi was fine.
 

Alex321

Guru
Location
South Wales
Aaaand apologies, my target pressure is 80psi. I used to run tubed at 100-105 (continental gp4000s 700x23/25). I am 115kgs.

Continental gp5000s 700x25 marking says max psi 109

Schwalbe pro one TLE 700x28 has no marking and finding a guide is tricky, but recall conversations with them inferred 80psi was fine.
There is a guide under here https://www.schwalbe.com/en/road-reader/schwalbe-pro-one-tle
Open up the "Evolution Line/Folding tyre", then the 28-622 according to that, it can be run between 55 and 95psi
 

I like Skol

A Minging Manc...
What gets me about the tubeless fanboys is the way they harp on about all the punctures they have avoided suffering by running tubeless tyres with sealant. How often do you hear them saying that they can see all the places that have been sealed by the super system..... No shoot they get loads of punctures when they are running super light, gossamer thin tyres to maximise weight saving and 'feel'. Try running a sensible tyre and you wouldn't need a tubeless/sealant system.
 
OP
OP
livpoksoc

livpoksoc

Guru
Location
Basingstoke
What gets me about the tubeless fanboys is the way they harp on about all the punctures they have avoided suffering by running tubeless tyres with sealant. How often do you hear them saying that they can see all the places that have been sealed by the super system..... No shoot they get loads of punctures when they are running super light, gossamer thin tyres to maximise weight saving and 'feel'. Try running a sensible tyre and you wouldn't need a tubeless/sealant system.
Fine I'll indulge you...are the tubeless tyres I'm buying thinner than the non-tubeless equivalents? I got the impression they were near enough the same compound? As I said earlier, I got caught with multiple punctures on a tubed set up in the same ride (and yes, I checked the inside of the tyre for protrusions, and yes the siting of the punctures were in different places) - so, not wanting to drag my wife away from home whilst our child was in bed, I wanted to trial the new system. If in six months time, I am back in this quandary again then I guess I'll join you on the anti-tubeless side, but nothing ventured, nothing gained. I am only looking for a guide on how to repair what I have now.
 

T4tomo

Legendary Member
...are the tubeless tyres I'm buying thinner than the non-tubeless equivalents?
depends what you mean by equivalents, but a Conti 4Season regular tubed tyre has better puncture protection for running in winter than a Conti 5000 TL. I personally would only run a Conti 5000 on the summer bike although they are reasonably durable.

The 5000 and the 5000TL are constructed differently, whether that effects puncture resistance who knows? the TL is heavier 300g vs 215g but then adding a tube gets you back somewhere near even. The sidewalls are probably thicker to help it keep seated on the rim-side. maybe having a single layer of higher TPI make them less penetrable than triple lower TPI layers? Below from a bike-radar review
The construction is a little different to the clincher version. The casing is made from three layers of 60 TPI compared to the 110 TPI of the clincher tyres. An airtight liner is added and the bead is modified for easier fitting and better air retention.
There’s the same Active Comfort – a vibration-damping technology embedded into the tyre – and a Vectran strip for added puncture protection. As with the clincher version, the Black Chili compounds give astounding levels of traction. They feel quick in the dry with no hint they’re holding you back.
Onto damp roads and they continue to find excellent grip, allowing you to ride with confidence in tricky conditions.
Descending ability is similarly impressive. Durability and puncture protection are excellent, too, making these fantastic year-round, fit-and-forget tyres.
I have a suspicion that i cant prove that manufacturers worry less at penetration protection with a TL tyre as they think - Ah the sealant will do its job, which it generally does, until it doesn't.

My key point which I mentioned on page one, is that tubeless set ups are brilliant for protecting against pinch punctures, which you are most at risk of when running lower pressures on wider tyres off-road.

The risk of pinch punctures on a properly inflated tyre on the road is miniscule. Yet the manufacturers market these tubeless setup road tyres at us, but I'm not sure what issue they are trying to solve. Neither are they - the sell "better feel", "ability to run lower pressures" (or is that necessity as the sealant struggles to seal under high pressure) for better comfort.
On my winter bike I can run pretty wide tubed tyres so I cant see the benefit of Tubeless for me personally. I might one day try it with my gravel set up, but nothing on that has yet prompted me to have a need to move from a tubed system.
 

geocycle

Legendary Member
@T4tomo interesting comment about running tubed conti 5000 rather than TL in the winter. I’ve never quite understood the concept of winter v summer tyres unless for grip or special winter conditions. What’s your thinking here?
 
What gets me about the tubeless fanboys is the way they harp on about all the punctures they have avoided suffering by running tubeless tyres with sealant. How often do you hear them saying that they can see all the places that have been sealed by the super system..... No shoot they get loads of punctures when they are running super light, gossamer thin tyres to maximise weight saving and 'feel'. Try running a sensible tyre and you wouldn't need a tubeless/sealant system.

Coming into this as a neutral-ish observer (I run both tubed and tubeless on my bikes), you are starting to sound like a broken record.

We all know you don’t like or see the point of tubeless, but you’re starting to turn every tubeless thread into a helmet thread, where the same same opposing opinions come out again and again.

The OP requested info on repairing a tubeless tyre, not whether people thought tubeless was great or not.

My opinion is that it may be worth trying a plug in combination with the Stan’s Race sealant which, as mentioned above, has bigger flakes for sealing bigger holes under higher pressures.

I have used Schwalbe Pro One TLE 700x28 tyres in the past and have found it tricky to get them to seal On my Pacenti Forza Disc rims and also after having a particularly large puncture. In fact I now have them fitted to my summer bike with tubes in! 😬

I’ve found the Specialized Roubaix Pro 28c tubeless the easiest to set up and have run them on the Pacenti rims with zero issue through two winters with several punctures self-sealed. They’re not as fast as the Schwalbe tyres though.



Now, changing into ‘Helmet Thread Mode’ for Skol‘s benefit, here’s my opinion.

My own experience is as Drago says “Tubeless is great. Until suddenly its not”.

It worked brilliantly at lower pressures in bigger tyres on my mountain bike.

It can be a hassle on road tyres though. I generally run my rear 28c at 80psi and it can be a bit of a pain to get it to seal initially. I may try Stan’s Race sealant on my road bikes as I suspect it will work better at high pressures, although have previously preferred injecting sealant through the valve with the core removed to avoid mess.

I’ve converted my summer bike back to tubes, but have persevered on my winter bike due to the several occasions where the tyres have self-sealed in the pitch black and freezing cold. To me, this makes the additional hassle worthwhile.

I’ve just taken delivery of a gravel bike with 35c tyres and would expect this to be fine with the normal Stan’s sealant. We shall see.
 

Milzy

Guru
Big cuts won’t seal. As above Tubeless patch on the inside. Those tires you have roll fast but have a reputation of been the more fragile of TL tires.
 

keithmac

Guru
For me having worked on proper tubeless vehicle wheels for years the bicycle way of doing it just looks a bit of a bodge, does anyone make a proper tubless only wheel?.
 

Dogtrousers

Kilometre nibbler
For me having worked on proper tubeless vehicle wheels for years the bicycle way of doing it just looks a bit of a bodge, does anyone make a proper tubless only wheel?.
Yes, Mavic. Google "UST".

At least I think that's what you mean. Doesn't need rim tape. Or, with appropriate tyres, sealant.
 
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