Drago
Legendary Member
- Location
- Suburban Poshshire
Oh Lordy.
Try Going Car Free
- Thread starter presta
- Start date
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Oh Lordy.
Ming the Merciless
There is no mercy
- Location
- Inside my skull
Far out weighed by the costs they cause.
Greasy Gilbert
I know nothing so feel free to contradict me.
- Location
- Rotherham sur la Don
No it wouldn't. It would just be nicer for anyone living in a town or city. It would still be pants for anyone living in the suburbs.
Last edited:
Drago
Legendary Member
- Location
- Suburban Poshshire
No, it would be much improved if the suburban residents also stopped driving these stupid pointless journeys.
They're part of the problem as much as they're victims.
They're part of the problem as much as they're victims.
All uphill
Still rolling along
- Location
- Somerset
"I'm going to be home late because I'm stuck in a traffic jam"
" No, you are going to be home late because you are adding to a traffic jam."
" No, you are going to be home late because you are adding to a traffic jam."
HobbesOnTour
Guru
- Location
- España
A few observations:
I don't like subtle (and no so subtle) digs at the mods for doing their jobs.
I'm bemused at the derogatory language used against people who use cars. I've found that if I want to make an impression on someone it's best not to insult them. Perhaps I'm odd but when someone insults me, hasn't the slightest intention of understanding my point of view I tend to tune out at best, dig in at worst. Those insults are also directed at my friends and family.
As people on bikes I'd be pretty sure that most of us have experienced or been exposed to derogatory language and worse directed at ourselves or other people on bikes. Again, perhaps I'm odd, but I think most of that comes down to a lack of understanding and an unwillingness to understand.
Pot. Kettle. Black.
Until we know why people prefer motorised vehicles to bikes we're peeing into the wind.
Comfort is a very good reason. Convenience. Speed. And, I think, the big one - security & safety.
In just about any survey I see "Safety" (or more accurately the perception of safety) is the dominating factor.
People don't ride bikes because it's just not safe.
Perception often trumps reality.
Infrastructure has a part to play in making people feel safe. But only a part. Some of the places I've felt the safest on my bike are in places without infrastructure, or physical infrastructure to be more accurate. They were places that seemed to recognise us all as people.
Not drivers. Not cyclists. People. There was a "social infrastructure".
The Netherlands are often held up as a gleaming example of a cycling utopia. I'm not sure if its known just how difficult the early years were, the rows, the discussions and the negotiations that took place (and still do). To go political for a moment, such things are not unknown in NL given the political system, the "Polder" model of government which is based on consensus - let's agree on the things we can agree on. Then we'll see where to go.
Having being exposed to such a system of government and learned to see its benefits (as well as some of its flaws) it also bemuses me at the inevitable criticism, often heavy criticism, of any attempt to improve cycling - on a Cycling Forum for crying out loud! It seems more satisfying to opine why it will never work rather than to look for ways to make it more successful. Throw in some venting and a few insults? All the better!
Now, changing the political system is a big ask, physical infrastructure is also challenging but social infrastructure? That's something we can all influence.
I don't like subtle (and no so subtle) digs at the mods for doing their jobs.
from: https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/news-and-current-affairs-forum.278926/
I'm bemused at the derogatory language used against people who use cars. I've found that if I want to make an impression on someone it's best not to insult them. Perhaps I'm odd but when someone insults me, hasn't the slightest intention of understanding my point of view I tend to tune out at best, dig in at worst. Those insults are also directed at my friends and family.
As people on bikes I'd be pretty sure that most of us have experienced or been exposed to derogatory language and worse directed at ourselves or other people on bikes. Again, perhaps I'm odd, but I think most of that comes down to a lack of understanding and an unwillingness to understand.
Pot. Kettle. Black.
Until we know why people prefer motorised vehicles to bikes we're peeing into the wind.
Comfort is a very good reason. Convenience. Speed. And, I think, the big one - security & safety.
In just about any survey I see "Safety" (or more accurately the perception of safety) is the dominating factor.
People don't ride bikes because it's just not safe.
Perception often trumps reality.
Infrastructure has a part to play in making people feel safe. But only a part. Some of the places I've felt the safest on my bike are in places without infrastructure, or physical infrastructure to be more accurate. They were places that seemed to recognise us all as people.
Not drivers. Not cyclists. People. There was a "social infrastructure".
The Netherlands are often held up as a gleaming example of a cycling utopia. I'm not sure if its known just how difficult the early years were, the rows, the discussions and the negotiations that took place (and still do). To go political for a moment, such things are not unknown in NL given the political system, the "Polder" model of government which is based on consensus - let's agree on the things we can agree on. Then we'll see where to go.
Having being exposed to such a system of government and learned to see its benefits (as well as some of its flaws) it also bemuses me at the inevitable criticism, often heavy criticism, of any attempt to improve cycling - on a Cycling Forum for crying out loud! It seems more satisfying to opine why it will never work rather than to look for ways to make it more successful. Throw in some venting and a few insults? All the better!
Now, changing the political system is a big ask, physical infrastructure is also challenging but social infrastructure? That's something we can all influence.
OP
OP
presta
Guru
If everyone who commutes by car were to stay at home, the loss to the economy would be more than the cost of their motoring, otherwise there would be no point in them going to work. In much the same way as the cost of a worker's train ticket to work must be less than his salary, which in turn must be less than the goods he produces.
Ming the Merciless
There is no mercy
- Location
- Inside my skull
That’s not the binary choice though, is it?
Drago
Legendary Member
- Location
- Suburban Poshshire
Sure, they stay at home and theyre not paying for train fares, for all day parking at the staion, newspapers at the kiosk, or sandwiches and fizzy pop at the local shop or cafe of a lunchtime.
But theye still eating food for their lunch, only theyre buying it elsewhere.
And the cash saved on train fares and the like is liable to be spent on other things that they could hitherto ill afford.
It's a case of readjustment and redistribution of cash across the economy rather than simply loss. The amount of money in ultimate circulation is unlikely to change significantly.
Then throw in the savings made by society if pollution and road death were to decrease along with the reduction in private road mileage, and it's win win.
There are many, many arguments for going car free, or at least reducing car usage to a more appropriate level. There are none that fully hold water in favour of maintaining or increasing car usage, unless youre a car salesman or an undertaker.
All uphill
Still rolling along
- Location
- Somerset
A year of not owning a car and I have found lots of positives and a couple of negatives.
You'll know the positives - one less thing to worry about, sense of freedom, fewer costs.
The negatives?
It's not easy to get to the beautiful local coastline. Still easy to get to Exmouth and Weston-super-Mare.
I'm not allowed in the local recycling centre! Cars only!
You'll know the positives - one less thing to worry about, sense of freedom, fewer costs.
The negatives?
It's not easy to get to the beautiful local coastline. Still easy to get to Exmouth and Weston-super-Mare.
I'm not allowed in the local recycling centre! Cars only!
Drago
Legendary Member
- Location
- Suburban Poshshire
Yet once inside you can stroll about on foot to your heart's content.
HMS_Dave
Grand Old Lady
Have given up the car a while ago. It was planned and succeeded, bicycles are our transport and I live out in the sticks for what it's worth. 5 miles from the nearest supermarket. The only time I really missed the car, potentially needed it was my recent bout in hospital as Derby hospital is a 35 minute drive at national speed limits away and there is no reasonable public transport routes there from where I live. I did happily accept lifts. I suppose that sums up car ownership. You spend a not insubstantial amount for a motor and keeping it legal for those rare "just in case" moments. People have different tolerances to their "needs" and some might "need" it to buy a loaf of bread from the local but then some would argue they need to commute etc.... I did see someone say their new years resolution was to be honest with themselves. Truly honest. How many would that apply to for car ownership?
nagden
Über Member
- Location
- Normandy, France
I came across this the other day. Takes going car free to a different level.
https://bikepacking.com/news/remote...bksPeHCtZxAdscy7El9FjQAMHAOzDsN4LH8c70LVTTlmQ
https://bikepacking.com/news/remote...bksPeHCtZxAdscy7El9FjQAMHAOzDsN4LH8c70LVTTlmQ
Alex321
Guru
- Location
- South Wales
If by "stay at home" you mean "stop working", then possibly. But many companies now allow home working, or at least hybrid working - as an example, I work from home 3 days a week, go into the office the other two weekdays (usually by bike).
Pre-Covid, this was unusual, but since Covid, it is not uncommon for office workers. Obviously, this doesn't work for factories, or shops, or any other job where face to face contact with customers or non-portable equipment is necessary.
