Touring Cyclist Club

[martint235]

It's unclear if you regard CTC as being too militant or too weak.

Not sure how it's unclear but here goes. CTC to an extent and LCC more so set themselves up to be militant however they do it without the buy in of their constituents. Therefore the people they purport to represent think they are just a waste of space and the people they are negotiating with recognise the fact that no one really gives a stuff what CTC/LCC think and just ignore them. So it's an illusion of militancy but without foundation that is in fact weakness or actually worse than weakness, complete irrelevance.

HTH

 

[swansonj]

Not sure how it's unclear but here goes. CTC to an extent and LCC more so set themselves up to be militant however they do it without the buy in of their constituents. Therefore the people they purport to represent think they are just a waste of space and the people they are negotiating with recognise the fact that no one really gives a stuff what CTC/LCC think and just ignore them. So it's an illusion of militancy but without foundation that is in fact weakness or actually worse than weakness, complete irrelevance.

HTH

I also think that CTC are picking soft targets for their "militancy". They want to give the impression of campaigning without picking on issues that might upset the establishment who they increasingly depend on for their funding.

 

[srw]

CTC/LCC are largely without power or influence regardless of how much they delude themselves. The people they pretend to represent see them as laughable and the people they seek to influence see them as irrelevant.

I'm fairly sure that policies can be formed without telling people how to think.

I disagree with both of your claims. We have plenty of evidence from national and local politicians tgat they are heavily influenced by campaign and representative groups, not always for the good. And your second statement is a caricature of the real position, which is that members (as opposed to official reps) of organisations have freedom to think what they want.

Do we want an organisation with power and influence?

As long as there are numpties lobbying for dodgy positions, yes. Every crap claim needs a counter.

 

[srw]

I also think that CTC are picking soft targets for their "militancy". They want to give the impression of campaigning without picking on issues that might upset the establishment who they increasingly depend on for their funding.

Such as......

 

[martint235]

I disagree with both of your claims. We have plenty of evidence from national and local politicians tgat they are heavily influenced by campaign and representative groups, not always for the good. And your second statement is a caricature of the real position, which is that members (as opposed to official reps) of organisations have freedom to think what they want.

As long as there are numpties lobbying for dodgy positions, yes. Every crap claim needs a counter.

Is this "evidence" a politician saying "Yes of course I think the CTC (I suppose I should start referring to them as Cycling UK) do an important job and my door is always open to them to listen to new ideas" or is it evidence of things actually being done for the benefit of cyclists generally? And by things being done I don't mean wittering on about how we want Dutch streets over here or that novel idea where a cycle path leaves a main road and passes behind a bus stop.

 

[srw]

Is this "evidence" a politician saying "Yes of course I think the CTC (I suppose I should start referring to them as Cycling UK) do an important job and my door is always open to them to listen to new ideas" or is it evidence of things actually being done for the benefit of cyclists generally? And by things being done I don't mean wittering on about how we want Dutch streets over here or that novel idea where a cycle path leaves a main road and passes behind a bus stop.

Just because the outcome isn't exactly what you want it doesn't mean that there has been no influence.

 

[snorri]

I'd rather it wasn't an organisation that told me how to think, behave or vote ala CTC/LCC

I haven't been aware of CTC doing any of these things, help me with some examples please.

 

[martint235]

I haven't been aware of CTC doing any of these things, help me with some examples please.

CTC sent me an email "suggesting" how I should vote in the last London Mayor election is one example.

 

[snorri]

CTC sent me an email "suggesting" how I should vote in the last London Mayor election is one example.

Wow! I'm surprised, I've never received anything remotely similar. (I don't reside in London)
Perhaps this accounts for some comments I've heard elsewhere regarding them putting too much emphasis on campaigning , whilst I consider they don't campaign enough.

 

[martint235]

Wow! I'm surprised, I've never received anything remotely similar. (I don't reside in London)
Perhaps this accounts for some comments I've heard elsewhere regarding them putting too much emphasis on campaigning , whilst I consider they don't campaign enough.

To be fair to CTC/Cycling UK, the LCC are far, far worse. There campaign material always comes across with a "We're doing this for you" attitude. No you're not, you're doing it because you think it makes you important. Go Dutch? No thanks. Stupid cycle lanes that are two way but on top of a kerb next to a road? No thanks that's just asking for trouble. The aforementioned bus stop on an island idea? Hopefully that person has been removed from any decision making whatsoever.

 

[swansonj]

Such as......

I'm signed up to various CTC comms channels, but off the top of my head the only recent things I could remember hearing about were the Big Bike Revival (classic way to generate activity, do some genuine good, make everyone feel good, and not rock any boat atall) and the recent Welsh nominate a cycle route thing, where it's unclear to me how much CTC have to do with it anyway.

So I looked at their website under campaigning. It features "fill that hole" -more classic win all round without upsetting anyone - but also "road justice" and "space for cycling", which sound good. So I looked at those two. Can you find a specific hard campaigning objective? I'm not dismissive of the strategy of sneaking change under the radar and getting to where you want with no one noticing; it's a good strategy. But sometimes you need someone actually to do something - change a law, for instance. That's where I increasingly see no appetite in CTC for doing anything that might rock their paymasters' boat.

 

[srw]

I'm signed up to various CTC comms channels, but off the top of my head the only recent things I could remember hearing about were the Big Bike Revival (classic way to generate activity, do some genuine good, make everyone feel good, and not rock any boat atall) and the recent Welsh nominate a cycle route thing, where it's unclear to me how much CTC have to do with it anyway.

So I looked at their website under campaigning. It features "fill that hole" -more classic win all round without upsetting anyone - but also "road justice" and "space for cycling", which sound good. So I looked at those two. Can you find a specific hard campaigning objective? I'm not dismissive of the strategy of sneaking change under the radar and getting to where you want with no one noticing; it's a good strategy. But sometimes you need someone actually to do something - change a law, for instance. That's where I increasingly see no appetite in CTC for doing anything that might rock their paymasters' boat.

From the last few weeks of their weekly email...
http://www.cyclinguk.org/blog/davidmurray/future-cycle-access-countryside
http://www.cyclinguk.org/news/20160630-mayor-promises-autumn-plan-safer-lorries
http://www.cyclinguk.org/campaigning/views-and-briefings/driver-training-testing-licensing
http://www.cyclinguk.org/publication/cycle-campaign-news-cycledigest/cycle-campaign-news-august-2016

And, from a few months ago they directly confronted government over the small proportion of the transport budget that went to cycling.
http://www.cyclinguk.org/news/20160523-cwis

Of course if you don't think they're doing enough it's always open to you to put yourself forward as a trustee....

 

[swansonj]

....
Of course if you don't think they're doing enough it's always open to you to put yourself forward as a trustee....

perhaps we could consult @dellzeqq and @User as to their views on the likely value of becoming a CTC/CUK trustee .

 

[srw]

perhaps we could consult @dellzeqq and @User as to their views on the likely value of becoming a CTC/CUK trustee .

We could, although with all respect to both gentlemen neither would be at the top of my list for people to turn to for their skills in coming to a negotiated compromise - which is what you need on a board of any kind. If you want someone to impose his or her will or be stroppy in a cause, or show deep and wide knowledge on a huge range of subjects on the other hand, both would be ideal.

On paper at least a lot has changed for the better since their day, which was in the depths of the pre-restructure pre-professionalised CTC. The organisation is now one which has structures capable of producing strategic direction. I didn't do more than glance at the advert for many reasons - one of which was @dellzeqq and @User and their well-publicised poor experiences. On the other hand the fact that Philip Bedstead fared badly more recently was a positive attraction....

 

[Venod]

I have been a member of the CTC now cycling UK on a number of occasions throughout my cycling life mainly for the insurance (I know you don't realy need it to make a claim} I joined CTC rather than BCF as I was not racing and believed they had more of a connection to the ordinary cyclist.

What they have done reorganising and changing their name I look on as a positive move, especialy the name change, I always thought CTC was a bit misleading for what the organisation actualy carried out.

Good luck with the Touring Cycling Club but its not for me and I suspect a lot of others who are happy with Cycling UK, should I become a Touring Cyclist I would certainly be interested.