Tour de France 2013 *spoilers*

[Strathlubnaig]

Definitely disappointed that contador/valverde/et all.... didnt have legs/bollocks today quintana had a few pops but no one else went for it.

The Jensie wrote yesterday
"But then Movistar and Saxo Bank just stopped attacking. I couldn’t figure that out. I mean you have 100 kilometers still remaining and the yellow jersey is totally isolated. You can do a lot of things in those situations. But you do not start to ride tempo for him. You are just playing into his hands"

 

[The Couch]

Sorry for some potentially long entrees... but I got a weekend of my glorified opinion to share

1. I was expecting Saturday to be the only race of real interest, because I expected the long descent on Sunday to be off-putting for the GC-guys... so I was expecting Sunday to be something for an escape and some small GC rumblings on the last 2 climbs with not a lot of effect
2. Very short on Saturday: that was a great last climb (and Quintana climbing is a sight for sore eyes). But as some people on here said as well, I did have the feeling, that except for Peter and Richie, Sky-domestiques were underwhelming

... what happened to Pinot by the way (Tejay at least fell in the first week, he has somewhat of an excuse)
... I had expected my earlier made comments on the combination Giro/Tour being too grueling to come true later on, but already Evans and Niemiec have shown there is some truth in that

 

[rich p]

... what happened to Pinot by the way (Tejay at least fell in the first week, he has somewhat of an excuse)

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/tour-de-france-pinot-devastated-after-downhill-setback

 

[The Couch]

I was however quite wrong about the Sunday stage... although I had the feeling the "full-on-war" was more instigated by the riders who were not super close in the GC (more position 10-30, like Rolland, Talansky, Anton, Nieve...), but these guys gave the others no choice but to follow since everybody was/is still very close to each other
By the way, I only saw the first hours of the race (till about the top of Peyresourde), had to leave the house (bloody responsibilities...) and then tuned back in for the last 20K

1. It was quite funny reading everyone's excitement here at around p.45 during the first hours (I too was very excited at that moment)... but this went back down and jokes and side-comments starting creeping in (which I believe strengthens my believe on the following)
2. Didn't (mostly) Movistar royally screw this opportunity??

FYI... I don't want anybody to take these comments as taking sides, if anything I prefer a person - so far not linked to dubious people or blood levels - like Froome taking it above (convicted) people who are linked to these
BUT... I do like exciting races (like the early hours of this race) and seeing bold tactics... taking advantage of everything they can

Why the hell did Movistar make "a Sky train" in front Froome the whole day (okay he had the matching helmet, but still... they can't be that much into fashion). When Merckx (and others in the old days) was facing opponents who were stronger climbers than him on the day (or whole Tour) then he used tactics (e.g. attacking in descents)​

In this case, I believe that it was stupid to wait for the last climb to attack Froome... and even more, it was stupid to attack Froome during a climb (sorry Quintana... still love you though). Froome was the best on Saturday and hadn't shown any reason why he wasn't on Sunday. He was isolated... i.e. attack him when we can't go as fast or faster than you, which means in the small flat pieces between the climbs or even the descents...​

Instead of making a nice pace, I believe they should have tried to constantly slowed down the pace, so that attacks could happen. After the 2nd climb of the day (where Porte got dropped), only Saxo and Movistar had about enough men left to "make a pace" to catch escapees. So, I believe these teams (again, I would have rather seen other teams/people do it, but that is how the situation was) should have tried to make an alliance... e.g. have Contador and Valverde try to escape together... have Kreuzinger and Quintana/Costa try to escape together...
Froome wouldn't be able to jump on each escape and at one point or another a small group would have had a gap, if Saxo and Movistar would not want to make pace, who would have caught that escape back?

Okay, maybe all the other teams (that are not in that specific escape) would work together... I don't have a garantuee for success either​

... but even if it wouldn't have worked, Froome would definitely not be behind a Movistar train waiting, but would need to help as well​

 

[The Couch]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/tour-de-france-pinot-devastated-after-downhill-setback

Thanks Rich for the info... I agree already in the Tour de Suisse, he was "hesitant" in the descents... but still he wasn't anywhere near the front while climbing and wasn't he dropped on Sunday during a climb

 

[thom]

I was however quite wrong about the Sunday stage... although I had the feeling the "full-on-war" was more instigated by the riders who were not super close in the GC (more position 10-30, like Rolland, Talansky, Anton, Nieve...), but these guys gave the others no choice but to follow since everybody was/is still very close to each other

.​

.​

.​

... but even if it wouldn't have worked, Froome would definitely not be behind a Movistar train waiting, but would need to help as well​

So I think Movistar appreciated that Sky 1 & 2 are very hard to attack - being able to put Porte on Quintana's wheel and Froome on Valverde's is good insurance for your team position. Eliminating Porte while not decisive is an achievement that may pay dividends later - it already moved up Valverde etc a place on GC, which in itself is something and it is a psychological blow to Sky.
I suspect that in sticking their train on the front (in particular after Saturday's stage) they just knackered themselves and had nothing left for any more extravagant attacking.

Also, it would be interesting to know if teams were aware if Kiriyenka was in so much trouble - if Movistar had not rode tempo, if the racing was more variable in pace and attacking at times, the whole thing would have been a bit slower and possibly allowed Kiryenka to make it. Losing him is something of an issue for Sky.

 

[zizou]

Movistar did their biggest attack on the flat between the climbs - Froome covered it and it split the group. They had a pretty good day rather than a wasted opportunity - moved up to second taking Porte out of the equation so Sky only have a plan A now (some would say sky only ever have a plan A!), still in white. It is still early days and alot racing and the alps still to come

On the climbs if Contador had the legs he would have attacked - he has always been that sort of rider both pre and post ban, that he didnt go suggests he was already close to the limit. He was in the group that had been dropped in the movistar attack that Froome covered and had to get a team mate back from the break to pace him back.

 

[albion]

I part think the question was 'why did Movistar choose to compete instead of near ending Froome's tour chance'.

Sort of like asking 'why do other cyclists work with the Brownlees'.

 

[smutchin]

Thing is, it was Garmin - not Movistar - who did the real damage to Sky yesterday by launching constant attacks as soon as the race started. Movistar only took up the pacesetting when Sky were already down to two men. Did they not want to apply the coup de grace or were they unable? Garmin's tactics probably affected Movistar too, just not as badly as they affected Sky.

And besides, I'm still not convinced Valverde has what it takes to beat Froome, even with a strong team. I'm reminded of Liquigas in the Giro last year - they tried to dominate the race with a Sky-style train but Basso didn't have the legs to apply the finish, and Hesjedal and Purito were able to take advantage. Quintana should clearly be their GC man on the evidence so far.

It'll be interesting to see how Wednesday's TT shakes up the standings. I predict Mollema will be up to 2nd in GC and Quintana will be up to 4th or 5th, depending on Contador's form, which is the biggest mystery of the race so far IMO. Saxo didn't seem too interested in attacking yesterday - maybe they're saving him for the Alps.

 

[rich p]

It was pretty clear on Saturday that Kreuziger had to hang around and wait for Contador. There is an understandable reluctance to switch leaders mid-race but it does occur sometimes and I'm not sure how good Dirty Bertie is at present.

 

[smutchin]

Another thing that occurs to me - if Movistar had attacked on the climbs, it might have hurt Valverde. If they'd attacked on the descents, it might have hurt Quintana...

The only person to benefit from either scenario would be Rui Costa.

 

[VamP]

It was pretty clear on Saturday that Kreuziger had to hang around and wait for Contador. There is an understandable reluctance to switch leaders mid-race but it does occur sometimes and I'm not sure how good Dirty Bertie is at present.

I read an interview with Kreuziger where he was asked that self same question. He said that Contador was in a bad shape on Saturday (unspecified cause) but fine on Sunday. From his perspective, everything was going to plan and he didn't think there was any reason to look at a leadership change.

I think if Bertie is struggling again on Ventoux, then they'll look at switching, but for now Saxo Bank are pretty much on target.

 

[rich p]

I read an interview with Kreuziger where he was asked that self same question. He said that Contador was in a bad shape on Saturday (unspecified cause) but fine on Sunday. From his perspective, everything was going to plan and he didn't think there was any reason to look at a leadership change.

I think if Bertie is struggling again on Ventoux, then they'll look at switching, but for now Saxo Bank are pretty much on target.

Thanks for that. Even yesterday, it seemed that Contador was very subdued though, so we'll have to wait and see if he improves at MV.

 

[smutchin]

Subdued or keeping his powder dry? This is the mystery!

 

[thom]

Subdued or keeping his powder dry? This is the mystery!

Powder ? What sort of powder do you mean... ? ;-)

On Sat I was watching the riders come over the line "explaining things" to my girlfriend, going - "ooh we don't like him he's a doper, or him - sorry this sounds a bit anti-spanish but we don't like him either...".

She mooted the idea that to simplify things for everyone, it might be a good idea if all convicted dopers were :
1) Required to wear something distinctive for the rest of their careers so the casual observer could easily know the score. Say blood red socks, or perhaps blood red shorts.
2) There was an additional jersey competition, the Blood red jersey, which would be worn by the leading ex-doper on GC.

It would be funny in that it would force Frigget and Sherwent to expound on the meaning of the colours and actually address the fact that the sport they commentated on for years was riddled with cheats.