My 'cross bike is pretty basic: secondhand alu. frame, touring rims (wheels are a bit on the heavy side, but they sure are tough), mix of Tiagra and 105 parts. Single chainring at the front to save cash and complexity. At my level- top third of finishers in local league events- the bike isn't much of a limitation, I expect the most important upgrade I could make would be get some new rims and run tubs on 'em.
Top end bikes really necessary for racing?
- Thread starter User16625
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Ludwig
Hopeless romantic
- Location
- Lissingdown
I have a Rossin bike which cost £40 and was probably a professional racing bike in the 80s and I have done a few time trials on it but it is no match for modern bikes and you just have to race against yourself.
Banjo
Fuelled with Jelly Babies
- Location
- South Wales
Bit of tweaking with a spoke key, it should be ok..Even pro level kit can fail. This happened to Mark Cavendish last year.
e-rider
Banned member
- Location
- South West
Obviously, expensive kit isn't necessary. A 1.5K bike will do fine. If you are carrying more than 2kg of extra body weight you might as well lose that before spending more money. And most people have plenty more than 2 kg spare! Lowering the bars will make you go faster as will more training and better diet. In the end though, it's all in the genes. Some people are born to go fast and some aren't.
Agree with the second and third sentences. First sentence is a bit of hocum though. Lowering the bars might be more aerodynamic but that's not going to make you faster if you're in agony. Look at alot of riders now, most obviously on the track where aero is more important, and you'll see riders much more upright than in the past - they might lose some of their aero postion but it opens up the hips so the extra power you can generate outweighs the loss of aerodynamics.
Amerfaranga - deep section wheels do make a difference. They won't win you a race on their own but at 25mph a deep section will save you about 40watts (with tubs that's closer to 45). In a bunch, that makes next to no difference as you're being dragged along, though the energy saved may come in useful at the sprint. Where it does make a difference is if you're in a breakaway, they can really count for a lot. FWIW I ride Ksyriums as, probably like you, deep sections are not going to be what win me a race, but I'm pretty sure you and I have been in some of the same races and I know the guys who've been at the front end of the Reg As regard their wheels as pretty key to their success.
steve52
I'm back! Yippeee
- Location
- bottesford scunthorpe
to us mortals the differance is next to bugga all im faster by loseing weight, so far i have lost the same as a large full bucket of water, fill one and carry it about for a bit? the cheapest way to go faster , the next best way is peddal fast , got that from mum shes 74 so is wise about these things, i have another bucket of water to go, then i shal concider the better bike option
Will1985
Über Member
- Location
- South Norfolk
Tubs are tubular tyres. Instead of having an inner tube and then a tyre which hooks onto the rim, tubular tyres have an inner tube sewn into a type of tyre which is then glued onto the rim. Tubular rims are also lighter than their clincher counterparts. Tubs can be pumped up higher and do not suffer from punctures as easily. However they are considerably more expensive.
Despite what monnet might be inferring, modern clinchers have a very comparable rolling resistance to tubulars.
Deep section wheels are wheels where the cross section of the rim is (surprisingly) deep. The advantage is that a deeper rim is more aerodynamic by smoothing out the airflow.
Despite what monnet might be inferring, modern clinchers have a very comparable rolling resistance to tubulars.
Deep section wheels are wheels where the cross section of the rim is (surprisingly) deep. The advantage is that a deeper rim is more aerodynamic by smoothing out the airflow.
SheilaH
Guest
Not even the people selling these things make claims as outrageous as that
http://www.reynoldsc...pany_technology
Even 25w at 30mph is going to be on the optimistic side of things.
The great thing about deep section wheels (apart from the slight performance advantages on windless flat races and time trials,) is that they look really cool. Manufacturers are falling over themselves to produce these things as they know the average Joe will shell out a grand to look like a pro. Christ, I'd have some if I could afford it. Plus they make a really cool verrrrrp sound.
But, time trials apart, these things are really unpractical. They have shoot braking and if you crash them or ramp them over a pot-holed road they go in the bin.
Remember when integrated seat posts were all the rage? Wonder what will be next....
amaferanga
Veteran
- Location
- Bolton
No they don't. 50mm rims (which is what I was talking about) compared to standard depth rims (say 20-30mm) do not give you 40 Watts for free at 25mph - more like a tenth of that. With 82mm rims you'd might get ~5 Watts for free, but nowhere near your claimed 40 Watts. And the extra 5 Watt saving with tubs - compared to what? If you compare to some top quality clinchers such as Veloflex with either latex tubes or lightweight tubes then there'll be very, very little difference.
But then any performance advantage from deep section rims will be much less noticeable in bunch racing anyway unless you're off the front in a solo or small break.
GrasB
Veteran
- Location
- Nr Cambridge
According to that it's about 20w at 30mph comparing a Zipp 808 to a Reynolds RZR 92. How does a Zipp 808 wheelset compare to a say a Planet-X Model B wheel set?
Alright, I'll stand corrected. I was speaking from the perspective of people I ride with who know far more about this than I do. They did their own fairly extensive research on their own riding to come up with the figures - one's an obsessive time triallist and one is involved in the technical side of bike design. Whoever is right though, there is clearly a saving in watts to be made - how useful that can outside a breakaway scenario (as I've already pointed out) is probably minimal at the level I'm at (for my two clubmates mentioned above, it's going to be far more significant).
Good clincher/tube combinations are close to tub in performance watts and weight savings are unlikely to be perceptible to most riders but but tubs still feel better on the road, they corner better (when glued on properly!) and are always going to be more supple than clinchers.
Good clincher/tube combinations are close to tub in performance watts and weight savings are unlikely to be perceptible to most riders but but tubs still feel better on the road, they corner better (when glued on properly!) and are always going to be more supple than clinchers.
brockers
Senior Member
- Location
- hollowed out volcano
Well said.
Here's Adrien of Roue Artisanale's table of rim depth vs watts absorbed at 50kph, which I've not seen posted on any forums for a while..
oldroadman
Veteran
- Location
- Ubique
All of which proves nothing really, except it helps to sell wheels which most usres will never exploit to their full potential. So far as bike weight/price is concerned, it should be possible to get a race weight (under 8kg) bike for £1500 or so, if you shop around. Personally I'm not convinced by carbon, too fragile, aluminium repairs where carbon shears. The wheel rolling advantage is really only a TT thing, light weight equals good acceleration, which is what you want for road racing.
A major advantage of tubs is that they can be ridden very soft/flat for a good distance, at least until the team car arrives. Ages ago when God was a boy, I managed a placing (somewhere around 4/5) on a flat tub ridden for the last (thankfully almost straight) last 2km.
We can all benefit far more from reducing bodyweight anyway, which improves power/weight ratio, which makes you go faster and get results, which gets you into a team where the kit is all issue, and you don't worry what it costs, just that it works! A few KG of bodyweight off can make far more difference than an awful lot of fancy kit.
A major advantage of tubs is that they can be ridden very soft/flat for a good distance, at least until the team car arrives. Ages ago when God was a boy, I managed a placing (somewhere around 4/5) on a flat tub ridden for the last (thankfully almost straight) last 2km.
We can all benefit far more from reducing bodyweight anyway, which improves power/weight ratio, which makes you go faster and get results, which gets you into a team where the kit is all issue, and you don't worry what it costs, just that it works! A few KG of bodyweight off can make far more difference than an awful lot of fancy kit.
